ICC ASSISTANT TO COUNSEL ATTY. CONTI, BINAYARAN LANG DAW PARA SIRAAN SI DIGONG, SABI NG MGA DDS
01:37.8
What we just did was put together all this information and make it available to the Office of the Prosecutor.
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As to the paid part, I think they're just reading too many novels and probably browsing through the ICC materials.
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In the article, he actually, this former journalist, journalist, says that,
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I get some kind of remuneration from the ICC.
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Unfortunately, there's a lot of assumptions.
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It assumes that, one, there is a case already.
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Second, I have been appointed to the court.
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And third, that the remunerations, the amount indicated, have already been approved or released by the court.
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None of that has happened yet.
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And right now, I am engaged pro bono by the victims here on the ground, both for domestic,
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and international engagements.
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Okay, thank you for that clarification.
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So, perhaps you can describe your mandate being the ICC Assistant to Council.
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What exactly does that title mean?
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Yes, I realize it must be misleading for some.
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For others, it feels as if I am assisting the ICC or a council in the ICC.
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But what it really means is that I am registered before the list of assistants to councils.
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I am there, and I am among so many assistants to council.
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There are a few other councils, the councils who can represent parties before the court.
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It may look like in the Philippines, you are accredited, you are registered to practice before the court.
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In the Philippines, if you can pass the bar, or if you are accredited.
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In the ICC, it's similar as well.
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Not any lawyer can practice before the court.
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You have to be registered.
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and I am appointed, engaged, and this is approved by the court,
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then I can assist in a case.
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So, right now, I am one council who can appear before the ICC.
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I am pledged for the victims of the war on drugs, just to be clear.
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For example, if Duterte becomes an accused before the ICC,
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he can very well form a team among the people listed in the councils.
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If he asks me, I would have to reject.
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Because I am already pledged in the particular situation in the Philippines to the victims.
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So, it seems there's a misunderstanding of your role, right?
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So, number one, what's clear right now that you're explaining is,
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one, you're not employed by the ICC.
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You're not getting funding from the ICC.
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And you are essentially registered to be a lawyer that can actually practice, in effect,
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if this goes to trial, in front of the ICC.
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You're registered to the ICC.
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But you're not paid by the ICC.
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You're not employed by the ICC.
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They're not human.
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But you are a lawyer for the victims of the drug war,
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which, wouldn't it be logical that instead of the word dirt against Duterte,
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you are gathering evidence against Duterte?
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But, again, it's not exactly against Duterte.
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We're not looking at him from the very beginning.
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It's, you know, we just have to pin him down.
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We started from the bottom.
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Sa killings kami nagsimula.
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We started from documenting these killings.
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And then, putting together public statements, putting together policy pronouncements.
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Kinunet na lang namin.
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In fact, our victims voted for Duterte.
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Some of them are Duterte supporters.
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And when we talked to them, they would say that maybe there was just something wrong.
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Maybe there was miscommunication on the ground.
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Maybe it was our fault.
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But then, when you process the information, when you analyze everything,
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our resolution, our conclusion then, was it was Duterte's fault.
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And in crimes against humanity, you don't really look at the person who...
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What led you to that conclusion?
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You said, in our conclusion, it was Duterte's fault.
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So, based on your conversation with the victims, the families, the stakeholders,
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what led you to the conclusion that...
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That it leads up to the top?
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His statements, Karen, even before he was elected, that there will be killings,
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there will be blood, resulted in killings and in blood.
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And when we traced the processes or the modus operandi, it appeared to us,
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and this is important to point out, that Duterte appointees or Davao police officers were the ones
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who were leading, not leading the police, in the areas where the killings were heightened.
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And this would be Caloocan in the very beginning, later on, Bulacan, and later on, Cebu.
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There were Davao boys, so to speak, who were presiding or lording it over these areas.
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And so, the concept of death squads deployed from Davao or deployed by Duterte and Bato de la Rosa,
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became clear to us as the killings went on.
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Okay. So, it's not just a rhetoric.
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Because when you speak with cabinet, former cabinet members of former President Duterte,
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they would say, that's a rhetoric. He never actually issued an executive order na patayin ganito, right?
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So, wala daw EJK. They always excuse it and say that it's how he speaks.
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They claim it was not literal.
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I wish I could support that.
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But, I mean, it's not just those kinds of statements.
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It was also, I will protect you.
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Ako ang bahala sa inyo kahit anong mangyari.
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Kung nalaban, patayin mo. Kung walang baril, bigyan mo.
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And so, the entirety of the statements, I mean, it would be difficult to backtrack.
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To say that it was just hyperbole or it was just a challenge.
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Really, right now, before the ICC, are many cases against top officials, even presidents,
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who have made similar statements.
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And it is for their appreciation how these statements can be made.
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And we are confident that it's not just Duterte's statements, but possibly some actions,
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some hidden statements, or some secret amnesiums or directives he has made.
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Okay. Now, recently, in an interview, you said, and you can correct this,
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you said you were pretty sure, did you use those words?
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You were pretty sure that former President Duterte, and this is in quote,
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will be considered as one of the most responsible for the war on drugs during his administration.
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When you say pretty sure, do you believe an arrest warrant will be issued against him?
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What is the state of the investigation today?
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Well, right now, the investigation is at that point.
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Where it is determining who is most responsible.
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That's the question that has to be established.
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We've already established during the preliminary examination that crimes against humanity occur in the Philippines.
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The Philippine government said, oh, maybe you forgo the investigation, defer it, because we will investigate.
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Later on, the ICC says, what kind of investigation are you doing?
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You're doing 52 cases?
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Ah, we step in again.
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And so it started technically in September 2020.
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Then in January 2021, re-approved again in January 2023.
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And it's been too long.
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So I think at this point, they have their finger on things already.
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And the name of President Duterte has been there in the OTP, in the Office of the Prosecutor documents, since June 2021.
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He's been named as someone who was enabled at the least, tolerated, or even ordered,
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or encouraged these killings.
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And so it's not just me who's saying that President Duterte will likely be looked into.
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At the minimum, there would be someone's issue, someone's meaning.
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Please come and cooperate with the court.
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But at the maximum, I think really, there would be a warrant of arrest.
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And President Duterte is...
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And when do you believe will the warrant of arrest be issued?
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Ah, that's the thing.
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Actually, the process right now is confidential.
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The investigation itself is confidential unless you are the one who's being talked to.
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So that's why I think some of these officials might have the audacity to talk about, to confirm things from the ICC.
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But then, even the application for a warrant of arrest is under seal.
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It's confidential.
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And as I have discussed in some other interviews, no news is good news, in a sense, with regard to warrants of arrest.
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Because if they announce the warrant of arrest,
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it says that maybe there's no chance that this warrant will be served.
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As in the case of President Duterte.
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So are you saying that it's possible that there's a warrant that will be issued but they won't announce it?
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And then you can have members of the ICC in the country and just arrest him?
11:17.1
It's not just possible, it is the rule that a warrant of arrest is issued confidential, secret warrant.
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It's only announced in certain instances when the court approves it.
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As in the case of President Putin, when there was no chance of him being arrested.
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So a secret, quote-unquote, warrant of arrest has to be coerced to members of the ICC.
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And this is where it could become public.
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So if the members of the court receive this warrant of arrest,
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if the Interpol, with whom the ICC has a cooperation agreement, receives a warrant of arrest,
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and issues a red notice, then perhaps it becomes public.
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But from my understanding, the ICC as much as possible reaches out to the country where the accused is at
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and asks the police, the local police, to execute the warrant.
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It will not be ICC officials executing the warrant.
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The ICC has no police. It depends on the police forces of its member organizations.
12:21.1
Okay. So just an update on the ICC. You can correct me on this.
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As of the, the one I have here is, as of June 2018,
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it has issued public arrest warrants for 42 individuals, right?
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I'm sure, is that still the number? Thereabouts?
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I think so, thereabouts. Because there were two warrants issued two months ago, I think, against two Russian officials.
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Okay. Now six of the individuals are already in custody of the court.
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And you have issued, you have six that's actually been arrested and they're in The Hague right now.
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So just very quickly, can you give me an instance of at least one of those who were successfully arrested?
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Were they arrested in their own countries?
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Or were they traveling and there was no more jurisdiction of the country and that's when they were arrested?
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Those two instances that you mentioned, that has happened.
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And this is not only in the case of the ICC.
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In other international tribunals or courts, there was one who was arrested in another country.
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He was president of his own country, traveled to another country.
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What was that? Was he vacationing?
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I think he sought asylum.
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All right. Okay. So he sought asylum and despite seeking asylum, he was arrested in that country where he was granted asylum.
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Yes, because things can change.
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In the African situation, the elections turned the other way.
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And so this accused was not protected anymore by the ruling party.
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And as such, he was surrendered actually by the country.
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I'm just not sure about his name, but this was in Sudan, if I recall.
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Okay. So what happens, attorney, I don't need to cut you, but we don't have enough time.
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What happens now?
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President Marcos Junior has repeatedly said that one, well, we're no longer a member of the ICC.
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Do they still have jurisdiction, even if we're not a member, to arrest who they believe to be a suspect, a leader they suspect of being guilty, even if the country is not a member?
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Can they still do that?
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As to investigation, the ICC has jurisdiction over the situation.
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It will really have to be the local police to execute that warrant.
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If you're no longer a member?
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If you're no longer a member. But that's a question actually that's interesting.
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That's very good that we're discussing the process.
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Because this is where it gets very confusing.
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So if you are no longer a member, which we are not, the Philippines is not, if the ICC issues a warrant,
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it's the local police who has to implement the warrant.
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And for them to implement the warrant, is it right to say the president has to order the police to cooperate and implement the warrant?
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If President Marcos Junior refuses, then stalemate.
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Essentially, that's it.
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Unless, and this is an option, we can move to confirmation of charges.
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If a council comes in and represents these accused, instead of the accused being in custody,
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they would voluntarily submit in court.
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And question maybe jurisdictional issues before the court.
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That's one option.
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And I heard about a few of them engaging the services of council who is ICC accredited.
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As to this arrest, we've always maintained that, yes, it is a matter of political will.
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But we appeal on the basis of continuing cooperation that is required under Article 127 of the Rome Statute.
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Under the agreement that we signed before, it says that even after you have exited,
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even after you have withdrawn from the ICC, you have continuing obligations.
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And if the president reads the briefer, a fair and thorough briefer supplied by the DOJ,
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then I would suppose he would come to the conclusion that, yes, we still have that obligation.
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This is interesting because the Philippines is only, again, I think two of,
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the second country to have withdrawn from the ICC.
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So this is actually new territory for even the court itself.
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What are the obligations of withdrawn countries?
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But then why should, I mean, the problem with this situation is the United States,
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one of the founding members of the ICC, I believe they were, they're not even a member, right?
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They were engaged initially.
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But then they moved out when the crimes against aggression was put into the charter.
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So, but just to move on, just my last question is there in another article at the Manila Times,
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it said that this was a May 13 article.
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It says that former President Duterte is actually not named in any of the ICC investigation documents.
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And I think it's important to say right now, just factually speaking, that this is false, right?
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He is not specifically named.
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So this isn't, this isn't an idea of posibleng si Duterte.
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He is, he is in the ICC documents.
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He is in the ICC documents from the report of the Office of the Prosecutor on the preliminary
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In the request for investigation, he's been named.
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And it's inescapable that he will have come.
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He will have to be in these documents because the materials that are available to the court,
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especially those who are, which are reliable information.
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They start from reliable information.
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So really, the article mixes some true things, but some false things.
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So let's, let's attack.
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So former President Duterte is named in the ICC documents.
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Is Senator Ronald Bato de la Rosa named?
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As well as Albayarde.
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This is in one of the reports of the Office of the Prosecutor because they mentioned that
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they were the chiefs of police.
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I think the period called that.
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I think the period covered, covers also their terms.
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So we left the ICC March 2019.
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I think Albayarde was the chief of police.
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So just for the record, there are three names officially mentioned in the documents.
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Duterte, de la Rosa, and Albayarde.
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And the ICC wants to look more into more mid-level police officers and they've identified directors
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of, well, the PIDEA, probably the drug agencies.
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And you haven't seen these?
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You haven't seen those documents, those names?
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Well, the names are in the report of the OTP, which is publicly available.
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But the actual, like the investigation documents, those are under seal as yet.
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We expect these to be unsealed or to be submitted before the court sooner rather than later,
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hopefully within the year.
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On that note, I want to thank you for joining me today.
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Thank you for, I mean, actually explaining how the process will go if it does go in the
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Thank you so much, ICC Assistant to Counsel, Attorney Christina Conti.
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Thank you for the opportunity, Karen.
