J. R. Richards (DISHWALLA/Solo) EPISODE # 181 The Paco Arespacochaga Podcast
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This episode is brought to you by Abba E-Services.
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And the podcast will begin in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
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Ladies and gentlemen, big round of applause,
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live at Paco's Place, Mr. J.R. Richards.
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Yes, I know, in the flesh this time.
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In the flesh this time.
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Yeah, the first episode was kind of virtual.
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It was really virtual.
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There was about 5,000 to 6,000 miles between us last time.
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And you know what, like as we were talking offline,
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this is really an inspiration to have you here.
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It's not every day that people of your stature say,
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I'll be there and actually follow through with that promise.
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Yes, it's just, thank you.
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Well, it's an honor to be here.
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And it took a while to figure it out.
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I mean, because I come through California quite a bit.
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This is where I'm from originally, right?
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But my schedule's always so tight.
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I'm racing from one place to the next.
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So I'm glad I was able to.
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But you're not based here anymore, right?
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No, no, I live in the U.K. now.
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So for, gosh, eight years now.
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Although, but to be fair though, I mean, well, okay.
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So about four months of that was spent outside of the U.K.
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I was in France and Spain and Monaco, U.S. quite a bit, Canada.
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You and your wife, or just you?
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My wife with me some of the time, but mostly me.
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I was saying, we have highly special needs.
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One of our boys has highly special needs.
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So it's hard for us both to go places together, sadly.
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Otherwise, she'd be here right now.
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Mike, you met Min already, right?
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Yes, yes, Mike had a chance to too.
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She's just awesome.
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My wife is awesome.
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So I'll address, why are you here?
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Let's bring that in right now, the first few months.
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I ask myself that all the time.
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Not the philosophical part.
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No, what I mean is, so do you, sorry I'm being so late.
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But do you mean, like, why am I here at Paco's Place?
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In the States, why are you back in the States?
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Why am I back in the States?
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Sorry, I promise it will get better.
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Yes, I'll wake up here.
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No, I'm in the States right now because I'm touring.
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So for two months.
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It's mostly, we were talking about, I do a lot of private shows.
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Close on, close off.
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So far, all close on.
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So yeah, I'm trying to do it without getting arrested.
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Yeah, so, so far it's been, well, it came out of COVID, really.
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Because, I mean, the last tour I was supposed to be on was in the Philippines.
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And I was just about to get on an airplane to fly to Manila from London.
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And my wife Min came in and she said, hang on for a second.
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I think the health minister in the Philippines just closed all of the venues.
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For a while, yeah.
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It was any venue that was larger than 500 seats or four, something like that.
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And that was every show.
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I'm like, right, okay.
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So that's it for that.
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So sadly, because I was telling you too, that very first show,
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I'd been talking to Arnel Pineda and he was going to come and sing
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Angels and Devils with me in Manila.
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And which would have been a huge bucket list thing for me.
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Hopefully we could get him and you together as a good friend.
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Well, he and I were talking about it.
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So he, and obviously he's busy.
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We tried calling him a while ago.
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He's sleeping right now.
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Hey, which I get.
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He's a singer. You got to rest the voice.
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So hopefully, you know, depending on our schedules,
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if he happens to be in the Philippines while I'm there,
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we'll definitely make it happen.
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Since you mentioned Angels and Devils.
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You're a songwriter, solid songwriter.
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What inspires you or what inspired you to write those songs?
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And you've been doing music all your life.
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Yeah, all my life.
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So let's start with that song.
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I mean, what's, what inspired you to write that specific song?
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That specific song.
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So, well, from a lyrical standpoint, you know,
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that part of it was, it was, well,
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it kind of came out of that idea of angels or devils is,
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is kind of that, that, that angel or devil that's inside each of us.
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And they're always, you know,
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my experience is they're always kind of fighting for who has control.
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And, you know, I mean,
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I grew up being taught to do the right thing and to be kind and, but,
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you know, sometimes it's hard.
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Sometimes, you know,
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we make bad decisions or you might be having a bad day struggling a bit
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stress, those kinds of things, depression.
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There's a lot of stuff that we deal with.
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this song was just about that internal struggle that we have, you know,
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to try to do the right thing and,
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and get through life in the best way possible.
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And sometimes it's hard.
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Did you know there was going to be a hit?
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No, no, no, no, no, no.
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I mean, it's interesting.
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the song originally started cause Jim,
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the keyboard player in the band had brought me the chords to the chorus and,
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and he was playing it for me and I'm listening to him and I'm like,
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well, it's pretty cool.
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I'm like, it sounds like Charlie Brown's parents to me.
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You know, I don't know if I totally get it.
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And it took me a while to get my head around it.
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And then I kind of finally,
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and the other guys in the band were pretty keen, like, Oh, that's really cool.
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You should do something with that.
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So then I took it home and, and then angels of devils came out of that.
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Finished writing it.
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So, um, but it's, it's a great song.
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The, the recording of it that we did as a band on opaline too,
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was really magical also.
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So, cause I think I've written songs that I, Oh, I thought,
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Oh, this is one of the best songs I've written.
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And then we've gone in the studio and recorded it and it just didn't translate.
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can you explain that to me and to the audience,
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because it really happens sometimes to the point like the demo is actually
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better than the actual recording.
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The crappy demo that you recorded in your garage or whatever is so much
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superior. Um, why does that happen? You know, it's just because, I mean,
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music is so emotional and, um, you know, it's, it's hard.
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I mean, I think, uh,
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what works the best is when you're able to capture that emotion and also
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be in a nice studio with good microphones and those things.
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So sonically it sounds really good.
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So you can hear everything well and balanced. Right. But at the same time,
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if you have to choose sometimes the, the crappier sounding version,
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but has all that heart and emotion is, you know,
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I'm working on a song right now, um, it for,
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for a new album and I had sung the demo to it a few years back. And I,
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I mean, I sung on,
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I was playing guitar and singing at the same time and I was out of tune and
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blah, blah, blah. But the vocal is so good that I did that day.
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I can't beat it. And it's driving me crazy. Like it.
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Cause I listened to that demo and it's like, I want to cry. I'm like, Oh my God,
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that's so beautiful to my ears, you know?
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And then I sing it now and it doesn't matter how hard I try. It's just,
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it's just not quite there. So I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do.
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What do you do when, when, when those things happen? Do you, do you, um,
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compromise yourself to hit the release date or do you have to make a tough
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decision? You know what, it's not working. I'm not putting it out. Yeah. Um,
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yeah, sometimes, sometimes I'll set it aside if it's just not there. Um,
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because I've, I've recorded enough songs that,
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that should have been better than they were.
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Like they just didn't translate well at that time.
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And I probably should have just not released it and come.
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So there are songs, sorry. Yeah, this is wow.
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So there are songs out on streaming platforms that when you listen to them,
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you're like, could have done better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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While us mere mortals go, wow.
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Well, I mean, I don't know. I think that, um, I mean,
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I guess it's hard to say because you can't hear what's in my head.
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I mean, because sometimes I usually hear how the song is supposed to be.
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and then the job is trying to figure out how to capture it that way so that I
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can play it for other people and they can hear it in the way I'm hearing it.
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But sometimes that doesn't happen. You know,
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sometimes it doesn't matter what you do. It's, it's just,
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and they might love it, but to me, I'm like, it's just, I know it's,
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but it could be so much better if I could just figure out how to do this or
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do you think it's subjective or objective or both at the same time with
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regard to the, um, the bar raised in your head?
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Um, I don't know.
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It's hard to say because it's such an emotional thing that I'm feeling right.
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So it's not, you can't quantify it.
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You can't say that all we need to do is just do X or Y and that'll fix it.
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It's just kind of like, that's not it. You know, that's not it.
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I don't know what to do. Sing it again, play it again. You know, try,
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I mean like Charlie Brown's parents,
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which was on the dish while his very first album, pet your friends,
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the demo for that song is probably why we got signed because the demo to that
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song on that cheap old cassette tape that we had done was so good.
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But I mean, it's, it sounds, you know, like a garage band, you know,
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it doesn't really sonically doesn't sound like great,
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but there's something really exciting about it when you hear it.
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So we went to go record it. And so we were thinking, Oh,
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this is going to be,
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it's going to be amazing because imagine what that song will sound like
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recorded well with a producer and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.
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But we recorded it and sonically it sounds really good,
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but there's something wasn't quite right.
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So we ended up so much so that we decided to go and try recording it again.
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So we went to a different place with a different person and tried to record
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it again. Still wasn't ever quite there.
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It doesn't have the same magic as the.
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So what's on the pet your friends album?
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Is the version that's really good,
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but not as good doesn't have the magic that our demo has.
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Isn't that album celebrating it's what, how many years now?
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28 years. Pet your friends. Counting Blue Cars.
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I'm getting old. What's going on?
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Counting Blue Cars you wrote that song.
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I really want, really like to meet her.
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How did that lyric, we talked about this on the virtual,
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but to a wider audience,
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when you were writing the lyrics to the song,
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what were you expecting?
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Were you expecting people to go, ah,
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this people are going to talk about this or, you know,
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I didn't think about that at all.
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It didn't even cross my mind once.
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It was one of those things where I was writing this song about this kid's
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kind of, I guess, spiritual journey.
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We was trying to figure out what, what, you know, how, why are we here?
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What is, what does this thing life and get a better understanding.
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And he was going from, in my mind,
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going from one side of town to the other, right. You know?
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And then I flipped the pronoun, which, you know, right now in the States,
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especially a big pronoun thing going right. Right.
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And you know, I was like, okay, cool next.
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And went on to the next song and really didn't think about it that much.
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And then it was one of those things. It was about, Oh,
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Charlie Brown's parents is going to be our first single. Right.
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And then that just didn't really translate.
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So it ended up being counting blue cars.
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But you never, you counting blue cars was never part of,
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was never meant to be the first.
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In my mind, that was not a single.
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So I I'm not, I shouldn't be the person picking singles.
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Apparently that song was huge, but I mean, in my mind, I was like,
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well, you know, it's good, but I don't know. I mean, it's, it sounds okay.
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It's a good song. And, um,
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cause originally we had another song called Hayes that was on the album.
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That was our first single, but it didn't translate very well.
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So the label decided to pull it really quickly and pretend it never happened.
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And then, and then decided to release counting blue cars.
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And a lot of people that label felt like this is a great song.
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Did they meet with you when they, did they actually sit you guys down and say,
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and said, uh, we're releasing counting blue cars or they just did it on their own?
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And, well, yeah, there were, there were three camp.
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There were three different camps, groups of people in the label that one wanted to release,
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you know, one group of people wanted to release Charlie Brown's parents,
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one Hayes and one counting blue cars. Um, and, uh, yeah.
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So the Hayes group one first, they didn't do very well.
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Then they decided to go with counting blue cars.
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I mean, a lot of, we were on tour.
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So a lot of this was kind of out of our control and, and to be honest,
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I wouldn't have wanted to make that decision.
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I was so young and really didn't have any.
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So, okay. So you were on tour. Hayes was out. Yeah.
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That was a really, um, creating much of a dent like counting blue cars did. Right.
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So you were on tour. Yeah. Who are you touring with at this point?
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I think we were touring with, uh, was this a matchbox to any tour night?
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No, no, it was a, I think it was better than Ezra.
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Better than Ezra. Yeah. They were good.
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They were a good band.
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You got a single, right? Good. So anyway,
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Yeah, it was good.
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It was really good.
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What was your single? Oh, it was good.
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It was okay. No, it was actually good.
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So shout out to the guys from better than Ezra.
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I love them. I digress. Right.
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But my first, my first Pentium was the IBM Aptiva.
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And I'd go to the good guys and they were all over the demo.
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Oh, were they? Yeah. That's so cool.
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Cause it was good. That was, uh, the, the demo of the IBM Aptiva.
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Which makes sense. Yeah. I digress. But yeah.
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So anyway, you guys were on tour with better than Ezra.
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Yeah. Finally in 96 counting blue cars come out, comes out.
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Was it 96 or 95? They released it in 95.
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But it really didn't start taking off till 96.
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And you guys were on tour. We were on tour. Yeah.
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So did you notice the sudden influx of fans because of this?
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Well, you know, it's interesting.
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You didn't really notice it as much because we were always opening up for someone.
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So if there were more people at the, at the show,
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I just attributed that to being, yep, they're come to see the other band.
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I'm like, wow, they're better than other guys. They're doing great.
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Um, I, you know, so cause we were, you know, we'd be playing with the Gugu dolls or tonic or,
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you know, Cheryl Crowe, we were on tour with quite a bit.
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So you, you just, you just, we were always opening up for them.
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So I never really thought, you know, if the room was full, it's probably wasn't us.
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It was probably them. When did you feel that it was you guys?
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Um, I, that's a good question.
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I think that maybe when we did, um, we won a billboard award in 96 and, uh,
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we were, well, we were asked to be on the show cause we were nominated for rock song of the year,
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which was like, took me a second for it to sing in.
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And the people at the label are like, you have no idea. This is a big deal.
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I mean, the fact that you're nominated is like, you're on the radar.
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This is really good. And I was like, Oh wow. Okay.
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And, um, it wasn't until I walked out on the stage to play in front of, you know, 28, 30 million people live.
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And it's like, the front row is like sting, you know, uh, Mariah Carey, you know, it's like, um, Santana.
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I mean, it was, it was not, that was your pitch me moment.
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This is the front row, LL Cool J. And it was like, are you kidding me?
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So Alan Grimares, I just gave you the front row.
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So I, you know, I remember being like, this is weird cause I'm used to seeing those shows and, and, you know,
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the cameras will pan around to the front, to the, you know, the, the front rows and you'll see all those people sitting there.
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But then I'm standing on the stage looking at them from that same perspective.
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It was scary at first, but then, but, and luckily just kind of, you know,
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the song started and we kicked in and we just started playing and, um, you know, and it sounded good.
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It's interesting because that night, you know, there, there were probably 30 different artists that were performing at the Billboard Awards, right?
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During the night, only two of them actually played live.
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Everybody else was lip syncing.
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So we played live.
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Um, even though our label was begging us to just, Hey, perhaps you should just, just not take a chance of sounding crap that night.
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And, you know, cause that can kill your career.
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Just go out and lip sync, you know, and we were like, no, no, no, no, no.
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We play live every night, you know, with, we'll go ahead and play.
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And then Brooks and Dunn, the country artists, they, they actually, they were awesome too.
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They sounded amazing, but everybody else was out lip syncing.
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So these opportunities, did you, we were talking about visualization a while ago while having dinner.
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As a kid, did you visualize everything that happened to your music career or was it by chance?
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Um, that's a good question.
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Probably more visualization.
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It's hard to say.
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Um, just because that's all I've ever really thought about as a kid, even as a kid.
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I mean, before I could speak, I was singing.
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Cause everybody in my family sang and, you know, played an instrument and that's just what I was used to.
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That's just what you did to communicate.
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But you, but you, you actually took it to a different level.
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Among everyone in your family.
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I mean, for whatever reason, yeah.
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I mean, cause, um, I don't, I don't know why.
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I just, you know, I, I was probably nine when I started writing songs, you know.
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What did they say when, when you started doing this, when they saw that you have siblings, right?
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I've, I've went one sister, but I had, but it was a lot of uncles and aunts and they all, you know, weren't too much younger than me or too much older than me.
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They all played and sang and were in bands and, um.
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But never, I want a record deal.
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Never, never that, right?
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And I wasn't really thinking about that either.
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I just, I just enjoyed playing anything that I, anytime I could play any opportunity, any instrument I could learn how to play.
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I was all over that.
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I mean, even learning how to be an engineer or producer, any, anything I could do.
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I was, I wanted to be a part of it or just go and sit on the side of the stage and watch.
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I'll help you set up your drum kit.
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You know, I'm in, I still enjoy doing that.
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This is, this is the goosebumps.
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This is so surreal because you're a rockstar without the rockstar attitude.
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It's very inspiring.
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If people watching can, can, can feel you, your presence now, it's big.
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It's very impactful.
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At the same time, it's a lesson that all, all of us here in this room should pick up on that.
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You're this generous human being putting out, you know, something that hopefully will reverberate to everybody watching.
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And, and I just wanted to say that to you personally.
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Gosh, that's really kind of you.
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Because now, now when, when you, when you set out to do this, you as an artist, was it already dishwala or was it supposed to be solo or it did not matter at that point in your life journey?
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Yeah, like early on.
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This episode is brought to you by Leo Bato and Associates.
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Ang realtor na Bato.
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Yeah, it was just, well, even though I was writing songs and I would be singing, I was never considered myself a singer.
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Yeah, I just consider myself more of a musician and I just love doing stuff.
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And it wasn't about trying to be the best guitar player or piano player or whatever instrument.
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Um, it was just about being a part of it, you know, and being somebody who's making this beautiful sound, you know, that.
20:39.0
Cause I love listening to music and I love anyway.
20:41.0
So, um, and it's just kind of evolved in a, in a weird way.
20:46.0
So you started solo.
20:47.0
Yes, I started, started kind of solo.
20:49.0
I played with a lot of bands.
20:50.0
I was always a keyboard player though.
20:52.0
I don't know why that was.
20:54.0
I mean, I started playing piano when I was four or five.
20:56.0
So, and I had quite a few synthesizers that I would save up for and those kinds of things.
21:00.0
So I really enjoyed that part.
21:02.0
And I never thought about being a singer until, cause I was a keyboard player in this band.
21:07.0
And, um, the singer was, was, and had an excellent voice.
21:13.0
Um, he kept getting roles in like Broadway plays and things like that.
21:18.0
And so he was never at rehearsal.
21:20.0
And so, and so we were like, well, how are we going to rehearse?
21:23.0
Well, I can sing the songs.
21:24.0
I mean, I know the words and I'll just put the mic on and I'll play my keys.
21:27.0
I got my little headphones set.
21:29.0
So I would just sing in rehearsal, um, so we could practice.
21:32.0
And then he would show up at the gigs when we would play.
21:34.0
And then, uh, one night he just called and said, sorry, guys, I just got another role and I got, I can't make it.
21:41.0
And we, we were con you know, I was, I was only 16 or something like that.
21:44.0
We, we, we had a contract that we had to play this, this place all weekend.
21:48.0
And, uh, so the guys are like, looks like you're singing tonight.
21:51.0
So I took my, I was like terrified, but I pushed my keyboards up onto the edge of the stage.
21:56.0
Right. And I had my little headset on so I could play and sing at the same time.
21:59.0
And, you know, I'm out front and that were you covering over this original songs?
22:03.0
Uh, mostly covers, I think.
22:06.0
Probably at this point.
22:07.0
And, um, but that's anyway, anyway, from that point on, I became the lead singer guy, you know?
22:13.0
Now, when, when you became the lead singer guy, was it in, was it with reluctance or did you embrace it a hundred percent?
22:21.0
Um, well, cause I think every night there would like in the band, every band I was in,
22:26.0
I might sing one song and I would walk up to the front of the mic, not playing an instrument, just sing.
22:32.0
I just, you know, would take on whatever the song was and be the character and, and just, you know, I'm just, I'm like, let's do this.
22:42.0
But I never thought of myself as a lead singer.
22:44.0
Right. So it was just this moment to go and just have a bit of fun and then go back and hide behind the keyboards.
22:49.0
Right. Um, which was fine with me, you know?
22:53.0
So yeah, I was a little reluctant, I think too, just because I, I know what it, cause that's a lot of energy to, for just to do one song was I'd be exhausted.
23:02.0
Cause it's like, you're trying to connect with the whole room and all the focus is on the singer typically, right?
23:07.0
Cause you're the one, you know, you're using your, you know, our voices anyway.
23:10.0
So, um, yeah, it's a lot of extra responsibility that comes with being a singer in a band.
23:16.0
Let's, let's, uh, let's drill down with regard to that.
23:19.0
Cause people only see the singer as, you know, the billboard of the whole band.
23:23.0
But like, um, to set up the question in this, this, the scene, like I'm a drummer.
23:29.0
I sing one, two songs in the band.
23:31.0
I can talk all night long and not worry.
23:33.0
Cause even if I lose my voice, I can still sing the song I'm assigned to sing, play the drums.
23:39.0
Not in your case though.
23:41.0
Your voice is your instrument.
23:43.0
You gotta take care of that.
23:45.0
Like we were talking about Arnel, we couldn't talk to him cause he has a show tomorrow.
23:48.0
Has to sleep early.
23:50.0
When it dawned on you that you said one song, two songs exhausting.
23:54.0
Having to connect with the audience with one or two songs exhausting.
23:58.0
Just the thought of now having to do it full time.
24:01.0
With your voice, which actually became the signature sound of the band.
24:08.0
What was the pressure like to would be wannabe singers out there?
24:12.0
Yeah, it's, it's huge.
24:13.0
I mean, I recommend to anyone who's, who's sings and wants to be that lead singer thing is to really take care of that voice.
24:21.0
I mean, I started studying opera technique.
24:24.0
Um, and this is a long time ago, but so I was about 18.
24:28.0
I, I, I just happened to be very lucky and started studying under this guy, Ron Anderson, who is prior until he passed a couple of years ago.
24:38.0
Probably like the number one vocal teacher in the world.
24:42.0
You know, I mean, um, uh, and it changed my whole, the whole way I look at singing and, you know, beyond just having, you know, improving your voice and taking care of it, but just the whole idea of what it's like to be that person that.
24:57.0
Cause you have to think about it.
24:58.0
It's like you're, you're putting on a show.
25:00.0
That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a very big sentence of you're putting on a show and, and sorry to cut you short.
25:09.0
Cause other people think that the person in the kitchen or at home or in the bedroom is the same person up on stage.
25:17.0
I keep telling people, those are two different people.
25:20.0
It's, it's, I mean, for me, it's a part of me, but it's not all of me.
25:25.0
And it's like, cause you can't, if you're stressed or you're sad or those, you have to leave that off the stage and walk out there.
25:32.0
And cause people expect to hear and see what they see on YouTube or here on Spotify or whatever it might be.
25:40.0
So you, you have to, you know, so you're playing, you're putting on a show, you're putting on a show.
25:45.0
I mean, you know, and, and it's, you're there too.
25:47.0
Cause people, especially too, if you're, if you're people pay to come see you play, you know, they, they want to be entertained.
25:53.0
So it's just kind of part of, of, of your job really in that way.
25:57.0
And it does sometimes feel like a job.
25:59.0
So it's finding that balance of, of enjoying what you're doing and kind of crafting who you are when you're, when you are being your lead singer personality.
26:08.0
Um, and, but also treating it seriously, you know, and taking it very, very seriously and, and trying, you know, trying to, so that people leave and they feel happy, you know?
26:18.0
I mean, it's, that's what it's all about is really connecting and also, you know, trying to, to remember that this is music we're singing.
26:25.0
It's supposed to be fun.
26:27.0
It's supposed to be enjoyable.
26:28.0
That's why I started doing it to begin with.
26:30.0
And so it's reminding myself that, cause I know a lot of singers are complaining.
26:34.0
Cause I got, I'm really tired.
26:35.0
Or do I have to go out tonight and sing in front of 50,000 people?
26:38.0
It's like, are you kidding me?
26:40.0
You really, so many people would kill to be in that position.
26:42.0
So it's like, you know, always not losing that perspective of how fortunate we are to be in a position to go.
26:49.0
And even if it's 10 people in that room, that's awesome.
26:52.0
You know, and it's like you, you go out and you do the best you can, whether it's 10 or 10,000, it just, it shouldn't matter.
26:59.0
It's just, you know, doing it because you enjoy it.
27:01.0
That's really what it's all about.
27:02.0
That's what I tell every, every artist that I work with that's young is don't do it because you want to be famous or you want to make a lot of money or, you know, whatever it is.
27:11.0
Do it because you would do it, whether anybody was listening or not, because you're doing it for yourself.
27:17.0
You know, you really, and that's how you're going to make the best music too.
27:20.0
Now, when you started doing, when you started, when you started out on your journey, applying what you just told us, now you're the lead vocalist, probably what 17, 18 at this time?
27:40.0
When did it become real to you that, oh my God, this is going to be my life?
27:45.0
Oh gosh, probably not until, it didn't seem feasible because I was still going to school, college and.
27:53.0
This is Santa Barbara.
27:55.0
This is Santa Barbara.
27:56.0
So, um, I was still going to school.
27:58.0
I mean, that was one thing my parents said.
28:00.0
They're like, we totally, we love that you love music and you're doing this and, and we support that a hundred percent, but just please keep going to school, you know, have, have a plan B.
28:10.0
You know, and then we'll continue to support it.
28:13.0
Did you have a plan B?
28:14.0
Uh, well, I mean, to be honest with you, I don't know what I would have done.
28:18.0
I mean, cause I was, you know, in school it was like, I was a music major, but I was also, um, minoring in German, which is kind of weird.
28:28.0
Cause I've been to Germany quite a few times now.
28:30.0
The Germans speak English better than Americans do.
28:33.0
So I don't know what I was thinking.
28:36.0
It's an absolutely useless thing to learn in school.
28:40.0
So, um, I mean, my English is being corrected at the McDonald's in Germany and I'm like, seriously, you know, anyway, so, so that was been a really horrible plan B, right?
28:54.0
So, um, luckily the music thing worked out, but I think that what, so for me, it, it wasn't until we probably got signed and, and it, you know, and you're signing contracts and you have a lawyer and, you know, all this, it became like, whoa, this is really for real.
29:08.0
And, and, and, and then you felt this weight of responsibility now, cause they're spending money on you and you owe them a lot of money and you better be good.
29:15.0
Otherwise they're gonna, you know, you're, you're, you're done.
29:17.0
So that's what people don't understand.
29:19.0
We owe the label a lot of money.
29:21.0
They think they're giving us, people think that they're giving us money.
29:25.0
No, they're advancing money that hasn't been made by us for them.
29:30.0
You're exactly right.
29:31.0
And even as the artist, you forget that.
29:33.0
Cause I mean, we would go to these very expensive dinners and I'm thanking them all.
29:37.0
You're not supposed to.
29:39.0
And in their minds, they're like, you're paying for it.
29:41.0
Cause I don't know why you're thanking us.
29:42.0
You know, we're, you're buying me dinner and you know, they're, they're ordering these fancy bottles of wine and I'm like, wow, this is, thank you.
29:48.0
They're like, no, thank you.
29:53.0
So we're still not recouped because of all those, of all those dinners.
29:57.0
We've sold millions of albums and we've never seen a penny.
30:00.0
So it's, it, it, you're right.
30:02.0
You forget that, um, they're, they're loaning you all this money and they're also the ones that decide when you've recouped.
30:10.0
Which is really bad position to, because there's no check or balance.
30:13.0
There's nobody leaning over saying, why are you charging them 10 times for that dinner at one dinner?
30:18.0
And it's like, you know.
30:19.0
Just to have them open the books.
30:20.0
That's, are you going to get a lawyer for that?
30:23.0
So it's, it gets really, really dodgy.
30:25.0
So, um, yeah, that's, that's the, yeah.
30:29.0
Being with the label is tricky.
30:30.0
Now, with regard to that, when, when you guys signed up as Dishwala with the, with the label, how did that, um, how did that affect your relationship among each other?
30:41.0
You being the lead vocalist, you not really having to, um, I get it because like with our, with our lead vocalist, Jonathan, it's not that he doesn't want to do it.
30:54.0
It's just that with regard to the responsibility, it's his face in front of all those people.
30:59.0
And like in your case, like I asked you a while ago, when did it get real?
31:03.0
You said when we, when you signed up with the label, now you're going out on tour.
31:07.0
Now there are, you're not playing once a week, you're playing almost every day.
31:12.0
What, what changed?
31:13.0
I think too, well, what changes dramatically, I think, cause if you are the singer and that, I mean, take me personally out of the equation, but if you're the singer or you're the songwriter, um, you know, uh, the, the responsibility, the amount of responsibility is not equal.
31:29.0
You know, I mean, that's what I found out initially because right away they were like, okay, you know, you're, you're the singer and we want to go try to break Europe or break, you know, Scandinavia or something.
31:39.0
So they would send me and maybe Rodney, the guitar player out and we would go do a radio tour and the other guys are like, cool, we're just going to hang out at home, you know, go on vacation, go skiing, whatever.
31:51.0
Um, you know, while we're out there working and then the band would come back as a full band and do that, you know, and at the same time, you know, and then being the main songwriter too, I'm also responsible for that.
32:01.0
So anytime we weren't on tour or recording, I was trying to write the next album so that it just was non nonstop.
32:09.0
So it's, uh, you know, cause we were always, when we went into it, we're, you know, we're just a bunch of friends, right? Right. Very simple young guys. No, you know, we have no responsibility really other than to ourselves, I guess.
32:21.0
And all of a sudden we get all this extra responsibility thrown on us because now they're, you know, this expectations, you know, and, uh, and then even though we were very much like, you know, everything's very equal.
32:32.0
We shared all the money equally, you know, very all for one, one for all, but the responsibility was not equal. So that, that definitely made things kind of complicated, tricky for me.
32:43.0
You know, I know for me after, you know, by our fourth or fifth album, I was just exhausted cause the workload was just, it was just a lot more, you know, I have to do more interviews.
32:52.0
I have to do more of the radio tours, more of that kind of stuff. And then the responsibility of writing was mostly on me.
32:59.0
When did, when did it take its toll with regard to, you know, I'm exhausted, I'm tired, I need a break. When did those things happen to you?
33:06.0
Uh, I mean, for me, it happened early on. I think in and around after our first album, I was pretty exhausted.
33:12.0
After your first album in your head, you were like, wait a minute, but you never said anything.
33:15.0
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, and I, there's a lot of pressure too, because you just had a hit album. They're expecting you to write another hit album. And, uh, yeah. So that's a lot of pressure.
33:28.0
Smallville opened the doors to more of the nineties, uh, bands in my opinion, like, like, like, like you guys, when, when, when Opaline was featured on, on, um, the songs from Opaline was featured on Smallville.
33:43.0
Was that, was that a good thing for you guys or a bad thing?
33:46.0
No, no, no. Great, great thing. Cause that's, I mean, that's especially too, if you're trying to break into markets that are outside of the U.S.
33:52.0
Cause I was in the Philippines when I heard that.
33:55.0
Oh, that's, that's awesome. Well, you know, so many countries, Smallville's a big show and like, we weren't, we weren't actively trying to break ourselves in the Philippines or South America or all these other places.
34:07.0
Our focus, cause the idea has always been that if you can break a band in the U.S. then, then the rest of the world will be easy. Well, it's not actually.
34:16.0
It's the other way around.
34:17.0
Yeah, exactly. You, you know, um, I mean, yeah, cause I know for a fact that it doesn't actually work like that. I know probably it has with some bands, but for us, it wasn't that way. But because of shows like Smallville or Charms or like the American Pie movie, um, quite a few other things that we've done, had songs on and those shows ended up having such a big cult following that, um, yeah, you're like, whoa.
34:44.0
Cause I, I got a call, you know, a couple of years ago to go play down in Latin America. Right. And they wanted me to come to Peru and for the first shows in Lima. And I'm kind of like, are you sure you got the right guy? You know, and they were actually, you know, paying me well enough to go down and actually do that.
35:01.0
But the whole time I'm thinking they've definitely got me mixed up with somebody else, you know, and, uh, I, you know, so much so that even though I went there early before the band had landed, um, to do a bunch of promo. And so I was on all these TV shows and everything in Lima. And, uh, I started to realize like these people actually know who I am. You know, they, they know all this dishwallet history. They even know some of my solo stuff. I'm like, this is crazy.
35:25.0
How do they know this smallville? It was mostly from smallville. So angels of devils, for example, was a massive hit and collide collide was in smallville as well. Big. So because of that, um, those, that particular country, for example, is not driven so corporately. So people could actually be like, I heard this song by a man called dishwallet. Can you play it? And they will. Yes. It's not like here. If you call there, they're like, yeah, we'll get to that. And then of course I never play it, you know?
35:53.0
Um, but there they did. So, um, yeah, we had this massive cult following there. And even though it's there, it's not their first language, as soon as I hit the first quarter of, uh, angels of devils, the whole place, I'll show you the video. Yeah.
36:07.0
The bass player. Cause I start the song when I play it, I sit down on the piano and I start playing it and then the band kicks in on the second verse. And, um, so it's, you know, this very intimate moment and, uh, you know, this is the last time. Right. And, and then there's 5,000 people singing it with me. I was had to pause for a second. I was like, what's going on? It was crazy. So our bass player, um, he started filming this moment happening. And I mean, I was just sitting there with tears coming out of my eyes. It was, I couldn't even hear myself.
36:36.0
I was singing off key horribly probably because the audience was so loud. Isn't that very humbling? It was one of the most, I mean, so unexpected. Cause I honestly, I remember landing in Lima thinking wrong guy. Nobody's going to show up to see us play. And, and I'm going to feel it. Cause the promoter is this lovely, lovely guy. And he spent all this time and money to put the show together. He's got me down there and I'm still thinking that he's, you know, God has not figured this out.
37:04.0
And it was packed. It was sold out. It was amazing. So yeah, it just very, very unexpected, beautiful moments that happen sometimes.
37:11.0
Uh, I first reached out to you nine years ago via Twitter.
37:16.0
Yeah, that's right.
37:18.0
And, um, it was amazing. I never expected you to reply. And I was like, Oh my God, he replied. I was telling Janelle, we were talking about it before you came. And Janelle's like, remember how you were jumping up and down when JR replied to your Twitter message? I'm like, yeah. And then you and my good friend Mark Tupas worked together. You mentored him on a song.
37:41.0
Uh, this, this big heart of yours, you know, is it because you just like doing this or what's, what's the deal? What's, what's up with the not so rockstar attitude? You said a while ago, you consider yourself a musician, but considering yourself a musician and having a taste of stardom, why did it not change you? Or did it change you?
38:07.0
I mean, I'm sure probably did, you know, I mean, and hopefully I wasn't, didn't go through a period where I was too annoying, but I mean, I, I think that, you know, um, I don't know. I, I, a lot of it had to do with my singing teacher, I think, cause he was very, Ron was very, um.
38:25.0
Ron's the opera guy?
38:26.0
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, um, like the first day that I went in to, to take a lesson with him, just to kind of give you an example of the caliber he was at, I could hear him. I'm in, he's in his conservatory and, and he has, you know, somebody answered the door and they sit me down in this hallway and I'm listening, I can hear through the door. He's working with somebody and I'm like, God, I recognize that voice, you know? And, uh, and then I, he had, he had a British accent and I was like, how the heck is that? It was seal.
38:53.0
Ooh. Yeah. And so this huge black man, good looking black man comes rolling out and I'm like, holy shit.
39:01.0
Seal. And he's like, Hey, hey, mate. You know? And so I'm like, Hey, wow. Okay. So, but that's, you know, um, but Ron is one of those guys. He's, he's more than just a vocal coach. He just knows you as a, as a human being and he's really good and has always been really good at just kind of keeping you grounded. Um, so, and also understanding that, you know, this is serious. You have to take care of your voice.
39:22.0
If you start going out and partying and doing stuff, I'm going to know, and you, and you're out, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to teach you anymore. So, you know, I basically live like a priest, but I, it's very humbling to, you know, you realize that if I want to go out and sing well every night, I really do have to, to really keep my, you know, my act together, you know, it's, and I was brought up to always make sure you're kind to everyone, to who everybody there is equally important.
39:50.0
Um, you know, and I'm happy to go in. I still enjoy setting up my own stuff. You know, I love rehearsing and, you know, I love the work that's involved in all of it.
40:00.0
This episode is brought to you by Dr. Lourdes Capulon.
40:04.0
Right. Um, I mean, I get huge joy out of that. So, um, you know, so it just, it just works out. I mean, I, I don't, I think lead singers get, get a bad rep for that. You know, they're being lazy and don't know anything about anything and they're never, you know, I was the guy setting the PA system up. Usually it's the lead singers just rolls into the cigarette and it's like, are we ready to go? You know, with a couple of chicks, you know, whatever. And it's that, that was, I was not that guy. So probably kind of boring, I guess. I don't know.
40:33.0
Cause yeah, cause like, like when, when Mike saw your show in Santa Clarita, I was like, did JR even say hi? Yeah. He was even shocked that I was taller than him and all that stuff.
40:48.0
Dude, you're tall. I was on my toes when we were taking photos.
40:57.0
So moving to, okay. Moving to England. Yeah. So why, why did, why did Min not move to the States? Why was it the other way around?
41:10.0
Well, Min was already living, we met here in California. So initially, so, and we were living here for quite a while. I mean, we were married in Scotland, but we lived in California for years. And, but when I was telling you, one of our boys is highly special needs and he became so ill that we needed to find a place somewhere that would, he would, you know, help him, you know, cause he was, it was not, he was doing very poorly.
41:38.0
So it just turns out we found there was a hospital, very forward thinking hospital in Oxford, England. He's a UK citizen, right? His mom's British. So he qualifies. But, but the thing with the UK is even though healthcare is free, which is mind blowing, how awesome that is. Cause the healthcare is amazing there and it's free. It's like, are you joking?
42:03.0
I mean, if you're, if you're not a student and you go and you get, you know, like we had one of our boys is a type one diabetic, right? He, I mean, he probably pays, you know, we had to pay like a thousand dollars a month for insulin for hair. Right. Right. Which just so happens. It looks like that might change that recent and soon, but I hope so. But that's how it has been historically. I mean, he was just, you know, at eight, he was diagnosed, not his fault. It's not the way he eats or anything like that. It's just the way he was.
42:25.0
Was it your fault or? Well, I hope not. Um, but, um, yeah. And you know, so when he's in the UK, he pays nothing for his insulin. Wow. Cause he's there, but he's going to school in Florida right now. He's living in Florida and, and you know. How old's your son? Um, they range, we have four boys. So they range from 20, 22 to 33. You have a, you have a 33 year old? Yes. I do. I know, crazy, huh? No grandkids yet? No, no. I know. I'm like, what's up?
42:55.0
I'm starting to think it's just never going to happen. Like what's up you guys get on with it. But no, they're all, yeah, they're, they're all lovely. And, and, uh, but, but one of them is, is highly, highly special needs. And so he was, and he was really quite ill. So, um, men had found a hospital, uh, and men's amazing. I mean, what she went through to, to, to, to, to care for him, it's just been a mind blowing and she's sacrificed basically everything in order to make sure her kids are okay. But, um, we found this hospital, but the only thing is, you know,
43:25.0
you have to live, you have to be in the catch, you have to be in the catchment area. You gotta be right next. So we found a house online, a little townhouse, um, that was, you know, within a stone's throw distance to the hospital. And we've never set foot in it. We just rented it and sold and gave everything away and up and left. Um, you know, um, that was eight years ago.
43:51.0
How am I? Oh, I'm great. I'm great. Yeah.
43:53.8
So you put family first and I asked you how you are and you are great. Expound on that and explain that to people who put the, who put everything else first before family. What is it your upbringing that, that made you go, Hey, no questions asked, family comes first?
44:12.0
Yeah. Yeah. Without question, of course. Yeah.
44:15.3
Where did that principle come from? Cause nowadays everybody's so career driven.
44:20.9
Yeah. Well, I mean, sometimes in order to be successful, you have to sacrifice everything else. Right. And, and, and, and I know that because I, I look at people that even are my contemporaries and the ones that are doing typically the ones that do really well, it's cause it's, that's all they do. And I unfortunately can't put that same kind of time and energy into it because I, you know, I'm a husband, I'm a father, you know, I have dogs and cats, I'm having a bad crush, you know, and that stuff is more important.
44:49.3
Right. I mean, clearly without a question and music is important to me too, but I can do that anywhere. Um, I mean, obviously there, you know, I have to be conscious cause I, you know, I have to make sure I, you know, we can keep the lights on, you know, and, um, but I'm not, you know, I'm, I'm not one of those, I'm not wealthy by any means. And, and, but that's not, I've never been what it's been, you know, why I've ever done it. I would have quit long ago, you know, it's never been about the money, but the enjoyment of being able to do it.
45:17.1
But of course, you know, having kids and family that, that's, that supersedes everything else. And so without, you know, and Min's the same way. So we both dropped everything and, and just said, we'll, we'll figure it out and, and saved his life. So he's, he's doing really, really well now. And so we're kind of like, things are stable. So we were just gonna, you know,
45:37.9
and you don't stay stability is a blessing. Yes. That's a lot to be grateful for. It is stability. Yeah. Are there regrets though? Um, not really, because I think, I mean, I've made some bad choices in my life, but, um, but I wouldn't be where I am now. If I change those, I might mess with that, you know, it's, it's that whole like very, you know, science fiction kind of thing, where if you could get in a time machine and go back and change some of the things that you did, you end up screwing up some of the, the good things.
46:07.9
Yeah. Right. And so, you know, you risk that. And, and even though it's been a tough journey to get where I am, that have had, that have had so many beautiful moments on the way, but I love where I'm at. You know, I don't think I would ever would have met Min if I didn't go through the things that I'd gone through, right. To get there. So I would risk losing her if I were to go back and regret and want to change those things. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. A lot of sense. Yeah. Um, getting back with the guys at, uh, in Deshwala, remotely possible,
46:37.8
not possible. I don't know. I mean, anything is possible. It's, it's tough, man. I think, um, you know, we've been through a lot together. There've also been a lot of guys in the band. I mean, we've had, you know, we've had two drummers, we've had three keyboard players, we've had like five bass players, um, and now two singers. Right. So, um, yeah, it's, uh, you know, a lot of different configurations. Yes. Um, and if the original lineup decides to do a show, let's say, yeah. I mean,
47:06.0
like a one night only. Yeah. I mean, they're pretty happy with where they are and, and, um, Justin, who's singing with them now is great. And it sounds good. They've been putting out some really good music. I mean, it's one of those things. I mean, they, they don't sound like Deshwala to me because of course you're the voice. Well, I mean, in my head, I'm the voice I'm sure to other people doesn't matter. And that's, that's totally fine. So I just say that purely out of my own, you know, just my own perspective, but, um, but all love and respect.
47:36.0
Obviously the band is amazing. It's you guys are amazingly lovely guys, all amazing musicians. Um, but it's hard when you're in a band for a long period of time. It's, I mean, as you know, yeah, you know what I'm talking about? It's, it's like being married to, you know, four or five other people. Yes. And there's no sex. So, which is really tough, but no, it's, you know what I mean? It's, it's a, it's that kind of emotional commitment and, and it goes a lot of different directions and it's, and, and then, you know, we started when we were kids.
48:05.0
and our responsibilities and our points of view change.
48:09.2
Yeah, I just got to a point.
48:10.4
Well, I mean, the band did break up after our fifth album
48:14.4
and I just kept on going.
48:15.9
You know, I mean, I went straight in.
48:18.1
I mean, I think maybe I took a year or two
48:20.2
kind of where I wasn't quite sure what I was doing,
48:22.0
but I kept writing songs.
48:23.5
And so then I took those songs and wrote my first solo album.
48:26.5
And then it was around that time
48:27.8
where some of the original members got back together
48:30.2
and said, hey, let's start playing again.
48:31.5
And I was like, well, I'm kind of right in the middle
48:33.2
of doing this other thing.
48:34.3
And, you know, they didn't want to wait around,
48:38.5
So they just continued on.
48:40.5
But like, tell me when to stop, huh?
48:44.6
Tell me when to stop.
48:45.4
I'll just keep asking.
48:46.6
When you're in the middle of a solo album
48:49.5
and they want to get together after them taking a hiatus
48:53.6
and you waiting for them, is the conversation simple?
48:58.8
Does it have to be honest?
49:00.4
Or is it kind of stoic where you're like, meh?
49:06.6
And the reason why I'm asking those questions
49:08.4
is because like any other relationship,
49:10.8
communication is key, right?
49:12.1
And like you mentioned, like you guys grew up together.
49:15.3
Me and JJ, same band, 36 years.
49:18.1
We know how it is.
49:20.4
And it hurts sometimes if you guys don't get along,
49:24.6
but what's the conversation like?
49:26.6
I mean, is it calm?
49:28.9
Is it give and take?
49:31.2
Are there compromises?
49:32.2
Well, I mean, for the most part as a band,
49:35.9
we got along really well,
49:37.9
which is probably why we lasted as long as we did
49:39.5
while I was in the band, you know?
49:40.8
But I mean, we had a share of, you know,
49:43.8
a couple of fistfights along the way
49:45.4
and plenty of yelling and screaming moments, but...
49:51.2
That's part of it though.
49:52.0
And I think that is part of it.
49:54.2
And hopefully you can work through that kind of stuff.
49:57.3
But you do have to be honest, but it is tough.
50:02.4
I mean, you know, I don't necessarily get along
50:05.4
well enough with some of the guys in the band.
50:10.8
I think that when it came around to,
50:13.1
okay, we're gonna get back and going again,
50:15.2
of course, some choices were made
50:17.0
and I wasn't even a part of it.
50:18.2
And it was just like, this is what we're doing.
50:19.8
And I was like, well, hang on, I haven't left the band.
50:23.0
But nobody asked me if I'm okay with this.
50:25.2
All of a sudden it's like,
50:26.0
what the heck, so I had to be really honest with myself.
50:29.1
I've obviously felt very obligated to these guys
50:32.7
because I love them all, right?
50:34.1
And I don't want to disappoint them.
50:36.8
And I know, and separate from me personally,
50:39.3
just because I am the lead singer,
50:42.7
it's a hard thing to replace, right?
50:45.4
Because we've flipped drummers,
50:48.1
we've flipped bass players,
50:49.1
we've flipped keyboard players.
50:51.3
Nobody really notices those changes.
50:55.3
And no disrespect to anyone, it just has to,
50:57.8
you know what I mean?
50:59.4
And I mean, cause I could have been the bongo player
51:01.8
in the band and they could have been
51:03.7
a different bongo player one night
51:05.0
and nobody would have known, right?
51:07.0
I could have been the best bongo player on the planet,
51:08.6
had nothing to do with it.
51:10.3
So it's just weird how it works.
51:12.4
And also being the main songwriter too,
51:14.8
that means that that's also gone away as well too.
51:17.5
So I know that if I leave the band
51:21.4
or if I don't play with them in this configuration
51:23.6
that they want to do, then that makes it difficult for them.
51:26.4
So I had to, I struggled with that big time.
51:29.6
But what ended up being a thing is that they decided
51:32.6
they wanted to go and play and do X shows,
51:34.9
but I had already committed myself to recording
51:38.3
and the schedule.
51:39.3
And it was like, I literally was like,
51:40.9
no, you gotta stay on course, man.
51:43.0
This is what you're doing, you know,
51:45.3
and love them or not,
51:47.6
you gotta do what you need to do for yourself to be happy.
51:51.6
You cannot compromise yourself in that way
51:55.6
because I know it wouldn't have been a healthy situation.
51:57.8
It would have ended up going bad eventually
52:00.4
if I had acquiesced and said,
52:02.2
all right, I'll do whatever you guys want to do.
52:04.2
Would you write for Dishwala?
52:07.4
I would love to play with those guys.
52:09.4
I mean, I enjoy that.
52:10.8
We make great music together,
52:12.8
whether it's a song we write as a band
52:15.3
cause a couple of the other guys in the band
52:16.5
are amazing songwriters.
52:17.8
And, you know, Dishwala has a thing that when, you know,
52:22.8
and it's interesting because different configurations
52:26.8
that we have been, right?
52:29.8
And, but each configuration was brilliant, you know,
52:33.6
and so I would bring in a song
52:35.1
and it would generally come out sounding better
52:37.0
than what I brought in, you know,
52:38.3
just because you put it through that lens
52:40.2
of how everybody does everything.
52:42.0
And it's like, wow, now there's some magic.
52:50.4
There's no doubt about that.
52:51.9
I mean, I was watching us playing,
52:54.7
somebody had sent me a film of us playing
52:56.9
at a big radio show in Texas
52:59.3
and I was enjoying watching us play, you know?
53:03.2
I was like, wow, that, you know, we were good.
53:05.8
So doors are not closed.
53:07.4
Well, I mean, I don't know how it would work.
53:10.0
And the other thing too is,
53:12.6
that's rather unfair
53:13.6
because there's a guy that's singing in the band right now.
53:16.6
I mean, what if Steve Perry wanted to come back in
53:19.3
and just say, yeah, just push Arnelle out.
53:22.8
I'm in now, I'm doing it.
53:26.2
If Justin called you and invited you back.
53:32.6
Well, I don't know why he would do that, but.
53:34.6
Because I asked Arnelle the same question.
53:38.3
I was like, would you call Steve just for the heck of,
53:42.0
yeah, just to watch the, just to watch them play?
53:46.2
Yeah, I mean, cause it is, it's a lot of egos
53:48.8
and a lot of things that go on in there
53:50.0
and stuff like that.
53:50.8
And I don't want to create any issues with anyone.
53:53.0
I'm happy, I'm happy doing my own thing, right?
53:57.7
And I don't, I mean, I miss the joy of playing
54:01.6
with those guys because I love playing with people.
54:04.3
And those guys are amazing
54:05.8
and we made incredible music together.
54:08.2
I totally miss that.
54:09.3
But it's, unfortunately life is a little more complex
54:14.2
And so I don't know how that would ever work
54:16.9
or if it could, but it's okay if it doesn't.
54:20.7
I'm absolutely fine with that
54:22.1
because I am very happy doing my own thing
54:24.4
and they seem like they're doing awesome.
54:29.0
So, and that makes me happy.
54:31.3
And that makes perfect sense.
54:32.7
And you're inspiring a lot of people right now.
54:34.4
I mean, they had a song, they just did a song.
54:36.7
They released like an EP
54:37.8
and one of the songs is, it was charting,
54:40.3
which is fucking awesome.
54:42.8
I was like, wow, for a moment I was kind of hurt.
54:45.2
I was like, well, hey, I'm like, yeah.
54:49.1
Oh, wait a minute.
54:52.1
But I'm like, but God, they sound awesome.
54:54.8
So I'm like, well, okay, fair enough.
54:56.5
That they deserve that.
54:57.8
And that's so cool to hear.
54:59.8
And so that definitely, I sat there and I'm like,
55:02.6
oh, that actually makes me feel really,
55:03.8
I'm really happy for them.
55:04.6
That's so awesome of them.
55:07.6
Now, right now, are you DIY
55:09.1
or are you signed with a label?
55:11.1
I'm completely a hundred percent independent.
55:13.4
Let's talk about that
55:14.4
because that's a good route to go with.
55:18.0
And I'm pretty sure songwriters
55:20.0
and aspiring artists listening to this
55:22.3
would love to hear from you, me included.
55:25.5
When you went fully independent,
55:28.5
what are the things you anticipated?
55:30.8
What are the things you forgot to anticipate
55:33.0
and slapped on your face that we have to be aware of?
55:40.5
Well, I think the only reason
55:46.2
that I considered doing it a hundred percent independent
55:49.7
and like, okay, I'm a singer from a band.
55:53.0
I'll write some songs, see if I can go get a deal.
55:55.1
I'll go see if I can sign with a label
55:56.6
and do that whole thing.
55:58.8
Just because my experience working with labels
56:00.9
is that you give up so much.
56:03.1
I mean, it's not just money,
56:04.4
it's just control and it's really control.
56:09.0
I mean, a lot of decisions are gonna be made
56:10.6
without consorting you.
56:14.1
And just a lot of control over like,
56:16.0
look, this is what we're doing.
56:17.0
And if you have a problem with it, then.
56:21.0
So, yeah, but, and I think if it were the 90s,
56:26.6
I would have to do that, right?
56:28.1
I mean, cause in the 90s,
56:29.1
if you wanted to release a song or an album,
56:31.9
you had to sign with a major label
56:33.4
because otherwise there was no other way
56:34.8
to get your album onto a record shelf,
56:38.1
to sell to that guy in Munich, Germany,
56:40.8
to get onto that shelf there.
56:42.2
Now with Apple and Spotify and all that,
56:45.2
there are no shelves that have limited space.
56:51.4
It's infinite now.
56:52.4
So that is the biggest issue
56:54.6
which has always been distribution.
56:57.1
Funny enough, that is the biggest thing.
56:59.3
So when Napster happened,
57:00.8
that destroyed distribution, right?
57:02.9
Because now it wasn't about,
57:05.1
are you gonna be on,
57:06.0
cause I used to be a kid trying to talk the guy
57:08.8
at the local record store
57:09.7
to put my CD up on the counter.
57:12.6
But that would be the only place
57:13.7
you could buy my album, right?
57:15.2
There wasn't an internet, right?
57:17.1
So there was no way to be able to go
57:19.2
and download the album if you lived in Spain
57:22.4
and you wanted it, right?
57:23.7
So things have changed.
57:25.4
So these days you can go out
57:28.2
and you can have a presence worldwide, right?
57:32.3
You can record a song
57:33.6
and people in the Philippines can buy it, right?
57:37.0
They can stream it and they do, which is awesome.
57:40.2
And I can do it all myself
57:41.6
and I have control over it, right?
57:43.2
So that's been a big part of it for me
57:45.9
is just I'm much more in control of my own destiny.
57:49.0
But then again, there's no advance royalties anymore.
57:52.2
That's a caveat that we have to be aware of.
57:54.9
But there are also now ways that you can market yourself.
57:58.6
I mean, I've spent quite a few years now
58:01.9
teaching myself internet marketing, e-commerce
58:06.8
with a real specific kind of weight
58:09.0
as to being an actual artist selling music and songs, right?
58:14.2
By the way, people are actually,
58:15.6
the thing that people are looking at right now
58:21.6
That's what they're seeing right now on the screen.
58:24.0
Right, so this is an interesting thing about music.
58:27.6
So this QR code is gonna take you to my Patreon page,
58:30.8
which is my community subscription, right?
58:34.0
And basically it's for people who enjoy,
58:36.8
hopefully are enjoying my music so much
58:38.3
that they wanna go deeper
58:39.6
and know more about everything
58:41.9
that goes into making those songs.
58:43.4
And also like, hey, what are you doing during the day?
58:46.0
What was it like being in the recording studio?
58:48.0
What was it like being on tour?
58:49.7
What did you and your wife do on your honeymoon?
58:52.6
That kind of thing.
58:53.5
So the vlog is on the Patreon?
58:54.8
Yeah, I mean, it's all there.
58:56.1
I mean, I'm actually gonna start a podcast series
58:58.6
that's just gonna be, maybe I can interview you.
59:02.4
That would be awesome.
59:04.1
I would love that.
59:05.5
But it's gonna be just for my Patreon community only, right?
59:08.7
So it's gonna be very, very small in that thing.
59:10.6
But it's, you know,
59:12.1
cause being an artist is much more
59:14.7
than just singing some songs, right?
59:16.4
I mean, I think that, you know, everybody has a story.
59:18.7
Like you're a very interesting person.
59:20.1
I could talk all day with you like this, right?
59:25.0
Cause I find it entertaining and interesting, right?
59:27.5
So I think that for artists,
59:30.3
it's about creating a whole culture about who you are.
59:35.4
It's not, you know,
59:36.3
so people have a better understanding
59:37.8
of why you write the songs
59:39.2
and why you sound the way you do
59:41.1
and why you do the things that you do.
59:45.2
And that's important.
59:47.3
Yeah, I mean, just think of all the artists
59:48.6
and musicians that we grew up, we love.
59:51.2
I loved knowing more about who they were as people.
59:54.4
And why they did what they did.
59:55.5
Exactly, you know.
59:56.4
And I mean, I spend a lot of time,
59:58.2
I do updates cause I'm working on an album.
59:59.8
So I'm constantly putting out updates
60:01.2
and being in the studio or writing a song.
60:02.9
I mean, even if it's just me trying to figure out
60:04.6
a tuning on a guitar and I'll just put a camera on
60:06.4
and be like, do you like this or do you like this better?
60:10.6
And as dumb as it sounds,
60:12.5
my wife's like, really?
60:14.0
That's what you're sharing?
60:14.8
I'm like, yeah, no, I am.
60:17.3
This episode is brought to you by ABBA E-Services.
60:21.2
But for people really into it,
60:22.6
they love that kind of access to see why you're,
60:25.9
what your process of.
60:27.4
Behind the scenes.
60:28.2
Right, that behind the scenes.
60:29.3
So, and so my wife, Min, she's a sculptor, right?
60:32.9
So she's, I mean, she's a director.
60:35.3
She's done so many things.
60:36.4
Does she do clay?
60:39.6
She does clay and then she has it.
60:41.4
Like clay, pottery clay?
60:42.8
Has she done that?
60:43.6
No, she, well, I think she has.
60:45.0
It's not her thing, but.
60:46.2
Have you guys done ghost?
60:49.4
Although, we should though.
60:51.5
Cause I did cover.
60:53.3
The Righteous Brothers?
60:54.7
Yeah, I did, I did.
60:56.8
You guys should do that whole ghost.
60:58.4
That's not a bad idea.
61:02.0
I love the way you think.
61:04.0
Cause I did cover Unchained Melody.
61:06.6
Cause I did an album of covers about three, four years ago.
61:09.6
And the first song on that album is Unchained Melody.
61:12.4
And so this is an interesting thing.
61:15.3
So along that line of like, okay,
61:17.2
so you're an independent artist
61:18.4
and you're trying to get your music out there.
61:19.8
So what did I do?
61:21.2
I'm like, well, I just put this album out with covers.
61:23.6
I'm like, what's the first song?
61:25.0
Oh, it's Unchained Melody.
61:26.8
So then film me singing,
61:28.2
had filmed me singing in the studio recording.
61:30.5
So we used a small clip of me singing
61:35.0
the chorus to the song or verse to chorus, whatever it was.
61:38.2
And then I, so I had this clip
61:40.3
and then I go to Facebook
61:41.6
and I get into their ads manager, right?
61:43.4
I mean, so we're going deep, right?
61:44.6
Already, we're in the ads manager and Facebook
61:46.5
and I'm putting that video out
61:48.5
and I'm marketing it to people who like ballads,
61:55.0
who like the movie Ghost, right?
61:59.2
So, you know, I'm thinking like,
62:00.5
who might enjoy this song?
62:02.9
Who's never heard of me before ever, right?
62:05.8
And so that's what it's all about.
62:07.8
It's going and finding your audience
62:09.2
and then bringing those people in
62:10.9
and having more than just playing some songs for them.
62:13.8
It's really creating a culture
62:15.8
around who you are as a person
62:18.3
and sharing that with them
62:20.6
and, you know, and giving them access
62:23.2
so that they can, you know, chat with you online
62:25.6
or whatever it is.
62:26.6
And so they, you know, they wanna come see you play.
62:29.2
They wanna, you know, they wanna download your music.
62:31.8
They wanna stream you on Spotify.
62:33.0
And then now, next thing you know,
62:34.9
you're creating a career out of this.
62:39.8
That being said, like you mentioned,
62:41.3
men helping out with this,
62:43.3
how important is it to have your wife,
62:45.3
your partner, your life partner with you
62:47.1
all the way on this journey?
62:49.1
Oh, it's everything.
62:50.0
Cause if she and I were stuck doing separate things,
62:53.6
that would be tough.
62:55.5
You know, one of us would have to probably acquiesce somehow
62:58.7
and in order to maintain a relationship,
63:02.0
which is, you know, how it is sometimes.
63:03.5
I mean, you have to make choices,
63:05.0
but in this case, men and I,
63:07.5
like this Patreon page that the QR code was up,
63:10.0
men and I both do it.
63:11.8
So, because we do so many things together
63:14.6
and we're constantly kind of sharing our, you know,
63:18.1
we're helping each other different things.
63:19.4
So all of her art, she does all of my music.
63:21.7
She's all the, most of the music videos I've done
63:23.6
the last 10, 12 years.
63:24.4
Were shot by her?
63:25.3
We're done by her.
63:26.1
And they're the best ones I've ever done.
63:28.9
I mean, she's so brilliant.
63:30.7
So, we do everything together.
63:33.3
I mean, obviously there are days where I'm in the studio
63:35.2
and there are days where she's, you know,
63:36.6
sculpting an ancient Egyptian dog or something like that.
63:39.7
And she's explaining how she does it,
63:42.0
but that's all in our Patreon community.
63:44.6
So that's kind of what I'm focusing on.
63:46.7
I mean, obviously I want people to hopefully listen to me
63:49.0
on Spotify and those things,
63:50.4
cause that's all part of, you know,
63:52.0
keeping the machine running.
63:53.0
But yeah, anyway, I mean, that's just a,
63:57.7
it's just a brave new world out there for musicians
64:00.9
and you don't have to have to be signed to a label
64:03.6
in order to be successful.
64:05.2
In fact, the idea is that you do so well on your own,
64:07.4
which is kind of how labels are signing people these days.
64:09.6
People are doing so well on their own
64:11.6
because they know how to operate TikTok really well
64:14.2
and get their songs out and they sing.
64:15.8
And the next thing they got a million followers.
64:17.7
Labels are like, oh, they've already got an audience.
64:20.6
It's all about building an audience.
64:22.5
That's really what it is.
64:23.3
It's just finding people that are interested in seeing
64:25.4
and hearing what you're doing.
64:26.9
And there are a million ways to do it.
64:28.9
It takes some time and work, but you can do it.
64:31.7
Mentoring, is that on the horizon?
64:33.6
Are you gonna do that too?
64:35.4
Cause it sounds like that, right?
64:37.4
Yeah, I mean, it does. With the knowledge that you have?
64:40.1
Well, I mean, there are some people
64:42.0
that are so much more knowledgeable than I am
64:43.5
and I follow them, but I do help a lot of the artists
64:47.5
that I work with, some of the younger ones
64:49.1
that I might play producer on or co-write or record,
64:53.1
do vocal stuff with.
64:54.0
I'm also trying to help them too and say,
64:55.5
okay, you've created this beautiful song.
64:57.8
How are you gonna share this?
64:59.1
How are you gonna let the world know?
65:00.5
What's your plan?
65:02.0
Because a lot of times, us as artists sometimes,
65:04.2
we're so unaware of all the other things involved
65:07.6
in getting a song out there.
65:09.0
We're just thinking about getting the best performance down
65:11.8
and getting a great song.
65:12.6
And then we're like, yes!
65:14.0
And it's like, okay, now what?
65:15.9
Now what are you gonna do?
65:17.5
So that's the big thing these days
65:20.6
is that there are a lot of ways that you can go
65:23.3
to share your music once you've created it.
65:26.1
So I spend a lot of time with a lot of young folks
65:28.1
and I say, okay, make a plan, think about these things.
65:32.2
So now, let's bring it home.
65:35.1
Are you able to commit to a recording of a song
65:38.8
that is produced and sung and performed by you?
65:45.0
Wait, you just confused me.
65:47.2
So, are you able to commit
65:49.4
to the final track recording of a song?
65:51.8
Oh, that's interesting.
65:52.6
It's like my brain just couldn't even go there.
65:56.2
I was like, no, no, don't, shh.
65:58.6
I have a hard time doing that sometimes.
66:00.5
I mean, obviously, you know,
66:02.0
I mean, it's tough to know when to say when
66:04.2
and to decide that it's good enough
66:09.4
because you can spend a lifetime on just one song
66:12.0
and never finish it.
66:14.4
And you can spend a year working on a song
66:16.4
and you didn't make it better.
66:20.3
You've gone laterally, it's just as good,
66:23.0
but instead of being lemons, it's oranges,
66:25.6
and it's like, doesn't necessarily make it any better,
66:28.7
but you spent a year getting from there to here.
66:30.4
So yeah, I mean, there's definitely a gift
66:35.6
in being able to say, done, next.
66:42.7
Me, I'm definitely not done.
66:45.5
Yeah, no, I'm deep in the middle of making an album
66:48.2
and it's taking a long time.
66:49.4
I mean, you know, COVID and a lot of other kind of life
66:53.3
things have gotten in the way
66:56.2
and some health things and that kind of stuff.
66:59.1
But yeah, you know, I'll get there.
67:03.5
I'm getting, but I've never gotten good at doing that.
67:06.2
I mean, let's be honest.
67:07.6
It's always been hard to do that.
67:08.9
And there's plenty of songs that, don't even get me going.
67:12.9
This is J.R. Richard.
67:23.8
Don't forget to point your phone
67:26.1
at the QR code that you're seeing right now.
67:29.1
And we'll have links in the description, too.
