00:21.2
Itong mga bakasyon
00:25.1
Kailangan magbakasyon
00:26.6
Sa both sides ng pamilya
00:29.0
At pag nagbabakasyon
00:30.1
Minsan walang internet
00:31.4
O minsan sobrang bagal
00:35.1
Ngayon nakabalik na rin ako dito
00:38.1
Which is extremely rainy
00:40.3
So from the heat of Philippine beaches
00:47.0
The rainy cold of the Bay Area
00:48.7
Alright, so hobby
00:50.3
Okay, mga hobby duties
00:53.4
We're not gonna hold it against you
00:55.1
Kasi babawi ka talaga ngayon
00:59.9
We're not gonna make
01:01.4
The episodes 3 hour long
01:03.2
Medyo naggets namin na
01:04.9
The audience for that
01:06.9
Is not as big as I thought
01:08.6
Uy, mataas pa rin
01:13.7
Yung ranking natin
01:15.3
Ng Richard A. Daren show
01:19.6
Hindi pa ako nakakabalik
01:20.9
So hindi pa ako formally
01:22.0
Nakakakonggratulate sa'yo
01:24.2
Congratulations bro
01:27.1
Number one political podcast
01:28.8
In the Philippines
01:29.5
Well, I would say
01:31.0
Together with Christian Esguerra
01:33.6
Para alam naman ako
01:35.3
But I was very proud
01:38.5
Kasi dun sa Spotify
01:39.8
Medyo mahirap ang kalaban mo
01:41.6
Yung mga kalaban mo dyan
01:44.1
Yung mga Vice Ganda stuff
01:46.6
Barangay Love stuff
01:48.4
Yung mga Jordan Peterson
01:50.9
Tayo lang ang hindi
01:51.8
Ang hindi produced na podcast
01:55.5
Yung mga tipoy diba
02:09.6
Thank you so much Fred
02:11.7
I think we're number one
02:19.3
Let me be very honest
02:20.6
Thanks to collaborations
02:24.5
I think this was really
02:26.0
In fact I can say personally
02:31.3
Which was a big year
02:32.8
Was the ones I did with you
02:35.7
And then yung tatlo
02:39.1
Did very very well bro
02:42.3
Sana makabalik tayo doon
02:43.7
I think that means
02:47.6
Dalawa tatlo tayo
02:49.5
But you know naman bro
02:50.8
May audience din tayo
02:52.5
Very important audience
02:55.4
Yung medyo ilustrado
02:56.5
Feeling pretentious
02:58.8
We're gonna start today
03:01.4
Speaking of ilustrado
03:02.8
Speaking of ilustrado
03:05.0
Saan ba nang galing
03:06.2
Ang mga ilustrado
03:09.8
Gaya ni Jose Burgos
03:19.4
Let me first start
03:24.9
Sa mga interventions
03:27.4
Were you emotionally
03:33.6
Can you talk about
03:40.3
So yung version ng history
03:42.3
Na linalagay sa film
03:45.6
Medyo oversimplification to
03:52.6
And slightly at times
03:54.7
Di ko dinala lahat
03:56.3
Slightly at times
04:03.4
I had problems with Luna
04:04.7
Because it was that
04:05.5
Kind of old school
04:06.5
Now the UP3 department
04:08.0
Is no longer like this
04:10.5
Merong certain stream
04:11.7
Of the UP3 department
04:13.9
Old school pala ba
04:21.4
Teodoro Agoncillo school
04:25.4
Na yun yung lumabas sa Luna
04:27.6
Teodoro Agoncillo
04:29.9
Anybody who collaborated
04:31.3
With the Americans
04:32.0
Deserved to be shot
04:33.5
Anybody who was negotiating
04:35.3
Deserved to be shot
04:37.0
Sa mga libro niya
04:38.5
Ang ganoon klaseng
04:39.2
Uncompromising history
04:43.4
Mas moderate kami lagi
04:44.5
We believed in thinkers
04:45.9
We believed in people
04:46.9
Who were moderate
04:47.8
We believed in liberals
04:49.9
Of course the history
04:51.1
And for the first time
04:55.2
Historiographical approach
04:59.0
Now it's very obvious
04:59.9
Bakit siya Atenista
05:01.8
Jess Com yung gumawa
05:02.7
Literally Ateneo talagang
05:04.6
And it's based on
05:08.2
Teodoro Agoncillo
05:09.8
But on the work of
05:13.2
And lumalabas lang
05:14.7
Ateneo liberal bias ko dito
05:16.8
Is leagues better
05:18.1
Than Teodoro Agoncillo
05:19.5
Si John Schumacher
05:20.7
For me was the greatest
05:23.5
Filipino historian
05:25.3
Of the 20th century
05:26.2
Because Father Jack
05:27.6
A Filipino citizen
05:28.6
And that's the other thing
05:29.9
I wanna say about
05:38.0
With a particular place
05:40.7
I think yun yung isa
05:42.1
Important lessons
05:44.1
So kaya ako tinamaan
05:45.8
Intellectual level
05:51.3
I do think though
05:52.9
That they should've
05:53.5
Gotten rid of that
05:55.3
Yung cheesy scene
05:58.1
Yung mga katipunero
05:59.8
Nakalinggo ng wika
06:07.4
Binasa yung bonifasyon
06:09.9
Yung mga katipunero
06:11.9
Was Rizal really there?
06:13.2
Parang child abuse
06:21.0
The film actually bro
06:22.6
Di naman ako director
06:29.2
Ng MCU style tag scene
06:31.2
It doesn't need to be
06:32.0
After the credits
06:34.0
Huwag mong ipakita
06:36.2
Huwag mong siyang pakita
06:36.9
Until yung last scene
06:37.9
And then you create
06:39.6
Whereby nasa kalamba ka
06:41.0
Tapos nandun si Pasiano
06:42.2
And then Rizal goes
06:43.9
Kuya tinanggap ako
06:46.2
And then Pasiano goes
06:48.2
And then Pepe goes
06:50.6
Pangalan ko sa kanila
06:51.7
Dahil tanggap na ako
06:54.6
Huwag mong gamitin
06:56.3
Jose Rizal Mercado
07:01.2
Tasasabi ni Rizal
07:03.4
Tasasabi ni Pasiano
07:06.1
Yung pangalan ni Mercado
07:09.0
Malapit kasi kay Burgos
07:12.0
Ang gagamitin ko?
07:14.1
Tasasabi ni Pasiano
07:18.3
Because one of the
07:21.2
But you could have
07:22.1
You could start the movie
07:24.7
With the part when he says
07:26.1
It should be Rizal
07:27.5
That's the explanation
07:33.0
When he was in Ateneo
07:34.4
Pasiano Rizal Mercado
07:36.2
There is some debate
07:38.8
As to why they dropped
07:40.9
But according to Rizal
07:42.0
Himself sa letters
07:42.8
And some historians
07:43.8
Actually disagree with Rizal
07:45.5
It's important that Rizal
07:47.6
According to Rizal's letters
07:51.0
They dropped Mercado
07:53.9
Was already tied with Burgos
07:55.7
And was therefore
07:59.2
Naging Jose Rizal
08:00.1
Na-red tag na yan
08:02.0
Na-red tag na yung
08:03.1
Pangalan ng Mercado
08:04.1
Kaya naging Rizal
08:06.9
Powerful statement
08:08.0
And hindi mo na kailang
08:11.8
Tapos yung ano pa
08:12.8
Yung buhok pa ni Pepe
08:16.4
When he was like 11
08:18.7
Yung buhok ni Rizal
08:20.0
Ganun na when he was 11
08:21.2
Until he was in his 30s
08:23.6
Masyado namang hard sell
08:25.7
Masyado namang hard sell
08:27.1
So I loved everything
08:30.0
The ending was really hard sell
08:33.1
I'm splitting hairs here
08:37.9
I completely agree with you
08:39.1
Hurt because for me
08:40.3
I think that was the most
08:44.7
I was already affected by
08:51.7
The way Nick Joaquin
08:53.8
Was very very powerful
08:55.6
Watched the movie
08:57.7
Reading Nick Joaquin's
08:59.1
Dun sa final scene
09:00.6
Nung patayin na siya
09:02.6
People dropped to their knees
09:09.6
But I like how you put it
09:11.3
Ikwento ni Pashano
09:17.3
The whole story comes
09:18.5
And then obviously
09:19.6
That means they have to
09:20.4
Also remove the first part
09:21.5
Where they were talking about
09:25.6
Kaya pumili ka ng Rizal
09:27.8
The struggle countries
09:28.9
I mean definitely
09:30.1
So interesting yung
09:33.9
Because there were
09:35.3
Proto-nationalist
09:42.8
And then there was
09:44.5
The Novalis Revolt
09:52.0
Was actually more important
09:53.2
Than the Pule Revolt
09:55.6
Kung kay Pule naman
09:58.8
Within the church
09:59.7
Pule wanted to become
10:01.5
But he was denied
10:02.7
So nagkaroon siya ng revolution
10:04.2
Si Novalis is more interesting
10:06.5
Because Andres Novalis
10:10.7
Living in the Philippines
10:16.5
When Mexico gained
10:19.1
Novalis made the argument
10:21.1
That since the Philippines
10:22.3
Was governed out of Mexico
10:23.6
The Philippines should be
10:24.7
Independent from Spain
10:26.0
So Novalis launched
10:28.0
And declared himself
10:29.0
The emperor of the Philippines
10:30.4
Dahil naniniwala siya
10:32.5
Ang Pilipinas ng Mexico
10:35.7
Yan ang first revolt mo
10:37.3
To free the Philippines
10:39.0
Not the Pule Revolt
10:41.9
A perfect continuity
10:44.4
The Creole revolts
10:47.9
But also with Palais
10:55.0
I mean if I could say that
10:55.4
I could put it that way
10:59.1
Parang sa tingin ko
11:01.8
Alam ko yung ginagawa
11:02.7
Nung scene dun eh
11:03.7
Parang sinosofen niya
11:05.2
And what's the blow there?
11:07.5
Is that these people are white
11:10.1
Kukonek mo na lang siya
11:14.0
You make it seem as if
11:15.9
It's not as white as it seems
11:17.9
And then you cast
11:23.9
Yes, totally white
11:28.3
Could have looked a little bit
11:38.4
Yung tatay niya puti
11:40.4
Ang isura ni Burgos
11:51.6
More like Moorish pa eh
11:53.8
Moorish ni Burgos
11:55.6
Parang more to the north eh
12:00.8
Kung pag-isipan mong gano'n
12:03.5
Hindi pa ata tayo
12:08.2
Bilang isang bayan
12:11.0
Some of our founding fathers
12:19.0
Hindi pa handa dyan
12:19.8
Isipin mo yung Ateneo
12:26.4
Ang tawag nila doon
12:34.9
Eh paano naging lahi yan
12:37.0
Kung yung mga bayani mo
12:39.8
At saka ni Burgos
12:40.7
Hindi talaga yung lahi
12:43.1
We're more Latina
12:47.7
Being a Colombiano
12:48.9
Or being a Mexicano
12:50.4
Doesn't mean you're like
12:53.0
You could be like
12:54.3
Look like those guys
12:56.3
Completely Spanish
12:57.4
Or you can look like
12:58.5
Some of these Hollywood
13:04.1
Yung Pilipino sa kanila?
13:06.0
May nabasa akong quote
13:08.3
Ano bang problema nyo
13:09.9
Sa aming kumakain
13:10.8
Hindi kumakain ng tinapay
13:12.2
Kundi kumakain ng kanin
13:13.5
That's interesting
13:17.2
Hindi kulay ng balat
13:21.7
Cultural practices
13:22.9
Cultural practices
13:25.7
So yung mga peninsulares
13:31.1
At saka yung mga indyo
13:32.9
Na magiging Pilipino
13:34.1
Kumakain ng kanin
13:35.4
So these are very interesting quotes
13:37.8
That reveal to us
13:38.7
What really Filipino is
13:39.8
Kumakain ng kanin
13:42.7
From Jose Rizal naman is
13:44.1
Some of us are kriyol
13:45.3
Yung favorite line ko
13:46.7
Some of us are kriyol
13:47.9
Some of us are Malayan
13:48.8
Some of us are Chinese
13:50.6
But we all call ourselves
13:52.9
Anong letter yan?
13:54.9
Please forward mo sa akin
13:58.4
Pag naanap mo na yan
14:00.2
That's a very important one
14:01.4
So going back to this
14:02.7
Mag-google mo lang
14:04.5
We call ourselves Filipino
14:05.8
Nasa libro ko yun
14:07.8
I-checking citation
14:08.7
So going back to this
14:10.9
The omission of Navales
14:13.7
Deliberate way of
14:15.4
Softening the blow
14:16.1
Maybe as you put it
14:17.3
But at the same time
14:19.5
This goes back to
14:22.0
The Diliman Consensus
14:24.9
The true revolutionary
14:29.0
Mukhang quote-unquote
14:31.4
I mean it was not only
14:32.3
Yeah I mean it was
14:37.6
Was very harsh on him
14:40.7
Which really synthesized
14:41.7
Our national aspiration
14:42.6
And yet we consider him
14:44.0
A national leader
14:44.7
I mean essentially
14:45.5
They're saying he's a
14:46.3
Counter-revolutionary
14:47.2
Because at that last moment
14:48.6
He didn't support
14:50.0
Although there are
14:51.6
Why he didn't do that
14:52.3
Aside from you know
14:53.1
Not being revolutionary enough
14:55.4
Do you think that
14:56.9
May kasalanan talagang
15:01.6
Di lang racializing
15:09.4
Dapat working class
15:10.4
Yung revolutionary
15:12.0
It should be kind of
15:17.2
Yes or no history
15:20.4
Revolutionary yan
15:21.4
Hindi revolutionary yan
15:30.6
Everything is an either or
15:35.2
So I think it's about
15:36.3
Time to live in yung
15:38.1
Where being a Filipino
15:42.0
Constant negotiation
15:43.3
Which is important
15:45.6
Because when I interviewed
15:48.9
Before making this movie
15:50.0
He was going around Italy
15:52.0
And he was talking to Italians
15:53.3
The Italy as we know
15:55.7
A direct continuation
15:56.9
Of the Roman Empire
15:59.7
Only around 150 years
16:01.3
Actually parang kapanamon
16:06.3
Yung Italians are made
16:08.0
Italians are made
16:10.2
It's a nationalist project
16:13.8
If you're Siciliano
16:15.5
You're very different
16:16.5
From someone from
16:17.3
Lombardi region in the north
16:20.3
Are very very different
16:21.8
From south of Italy
16:23.5
All the way to north
16:25.0
I had some friends from north
16:26.8
Oh we're more Austrian
16:30.5
Oh they're Alaska
16:32.8
Yeah that's their joke
16:34.1
We're more like Austrian
16:35.3
We're almost German
16:36.6
And then of course
16:37.8
The one in the south
16:39.4
They make racial joke
16:40.6
That they're almost like
16:42.3
Or something like that
16:43.5
I thought that was
16:46.1
That was very very helpful
16:49.7
To what degree do you think
16:50.6
This movie was important
16:51.6
In contributing to a proper
16:52.8
Discourse on that level
16:53.8
Because I don't know
16:56.9
That appeals to the public
16:57.8
So you need some cheesy part
17:00.3
At least to make it
17:01.2
To make commercial sense
17:02.5
And make it appealing
17:04.9
Tuloy tuloy pa rin
17:05.6
Sa mga malalaking cinema
17:07.0
And many were ashamed to show it
17:08.8
But it's also about
17:12.7
Or self-described intelligentsia
17:14.0
We have to be shocked
17:15.0
Into having a proper discourse
17:16.6
And not be satisfied
17:17.5
With what we inherited
17:19.1
I mean how do you see
17:19.8
I think part naman siya
17:22.1
Nang progress datin
17:27.6
Diliman Consensus
17:29.4
Constantino School
17:30.5
Kunti na lang naman
17:31.6
Dan yung naniniwala dyan
17:35.5
Who were raised on that
17:38.6
60s and 70s yun eh
17:42.5
Slash counter-revolutionary
17:45.8
Baka yung last breath na nun
17:51.9
Pinupuruhan ko talaga
17:52.8
Yung General Luna
17:53.4
No I really don't like
17:55.7
I'm on the record
17:56.5
Saying that you know
17:57.3
That helped create Duterte
17:58.5
So dapat talagang
18:00.1
Puruhan yung sining yun
18:02.4
We as a community
18:07.2
In Philippine history
18:09.6
What this film is
18:12.4
May isa pang sine
18:13.3
Na medyo ganito eh
18:14.3
Na ginagamit ko rin
18:15.7
Yung ganito kami noon
18:16.6
Paano kayo ngayon
18:17.6
Na napaka-fluid din
18:18.9
Ang discussion of
18:20.4
And it's one of the few films
18:22.2
Na hindi overacting
18:23.1
Si Christopher De Leon
18:25.6
That's a good way of putting it
18:28.8
So I wanna keep it short
18:30.2
Not go too much about it
18:31.2
I wanna just go back
18:32.0
A little bit to Rizal
18:32.8
And some of the discussions
18:34.0
You had with some of the historians
18:35.5
Nakisausaw lang ako
18:37.5
Emphasis on Schumacher
18:39.6
We had some discussion
18:40.4
About Benedict Anderson
18:41.4
I know it will be
18:42.1
A little bit historiographical
18:43.1
But I think you're the person
18:44.3
Best person to talk to
18:46.7
Yung question of Rizal
18:48.6
What is a true revolutionary
18:50.8
The first Filipino
18:52.3
We touched on those things
18:54.0
But I wanna go deeper
18:55.3
Thank you very much for that
18:56.2
Dr. Lisandro Claudio
18:57.3
Joining us from UC Berkeley
18:58.6
I'm just saying that
18:59.2
Lalo kasi mga iba
18:59.9
Na bagong audience
19:00.8
Hindi ninalam yung boses mo
19:02.1
So I have to just
19:04.3
Thank you very much
