00:58.6
attempt in Escoda Shoal is a security threat to the Philippines.
01:05.2
The United States defends its decision to pause a bomb shipment to Israel.
01:12.8
And thousands told to evacuate as wildfires spread in Western Canada.
01:20.9
On Hot Copy this morning,
01:23.2
China's alleged reclamation activities,
01:26.7
which the Philippine Coast Guard says,
01:28.6
led to the sorry state of the Escoda Shoal.
01:33.0
Michael Delizo explains.
01:39.3
The Philippine Coast Guard has discovered a pile of dead and crashed corals
01:44.0
in Escoda or Sabina Shoal, altering its maritime features.
01:47.9
PCJ spokesperson for the West Philippine Sea, Commodore J. Tariella said,
01:52.0
the physical characteristics of the low tide elevation surrounding Escoda are similar
01:56.8
to those of the case in Pag-Aspan.
01:58.6
The island where dead corals have been dumped.
02:01.5
During their inspection, Filipino researchers said,
02:04.1
surrounding waters and marine life were in a degraded state.
02:08.0
Malulungkot ka sa naging itsura na kayo ng Sabina Shoal.
02:11.8
If you're going to talk to fishermen from Palawan,
02:16.6
alam nila na kung gaano kayaman na pang-isdaan dati ang Sabina Shoal.
02:21.7
Matagal na panahon makarecover ang corals.
02:24.9
It will take 50, 100 years.
02:26.7
Similar to Pag-Aspan Island,
02:28.6
the Coast Guard believes China is behind the marine destruction.
02:32.7
Sino ba ang among countries in South China Sea
02:37.2
ang meron talagang walang pakundangang pagsira ng marine environment?
02:43.8
Sino lang ba ang pwede nating ituro lahat?
02:47.3
The PCJ earlier deployed the BRP Teresa Magbanua in Escoda Shoal
02:50.9
following a report on April 15th
02:53.1
of the presence of Chinese maritime Melissa ships and research vessel in the area,
02:58.6
75 nautical miles or around 120 kilometers
03:01.3
off the coast of the main Palawan Island.
03:04.1
Some Chinese marine researchers were also spotted diving in the waters.
03:08.2
Tariela expressed alarm on what appears to be reclamation activities.
03:12.5
Kahit anong reclamation pagdating sa West Philippine Sea,
03:17.5
But this is more alarming kumpara sa Sandy Cays.
03:20.4
Dahil sabi ko nga, mas malapit ito sa lalawigan ng Palawan.
03:24.1
As to the strategic relevance ng...
03:30.2
I don't want to speculate or to alarm the public.
03:35.3
But ang sinasabi ko lang, ito ay napakalapit.
03:39.6
Tariela says the deployment of BRP Magbanua near Escoda is effective
03:43.7
in discouraging China from continuing their island reclamation activities.
03:48.0
Hindi ito a state of helplessness.
03:50.1
The mere fact that the Philippine Coast Guard has prevented the Chinese government
03:54.8
in continuing their island reclamation
03:57.5
in Sabine, China,
03:58.5
is not a state of helplessness.
03:58.6
It means we remain to be effective.
04:02.2
Escoda is a key passageway since Philippine vessels
04:05.0
passed through the area
04:06.3
when conducting rotation and resupply mission
04:08.9
to Ayungin Shoal.
04:10.3
Michael Delizo, ABS-CBN News.
04:15.4
Alright, joining us on Hot Copy
04:17.1
to kick off the week,
04:18.4
we have with us former Supreme Court Associate Justice
04:23.2
Justice Carpio, good morning to you.
04:25.9
Good morning, Karen.
04:26.7
Good morning to our viewers.
04:28.6
We have been focused on Ayungin Shoal.
04:31.4
We've done interviews on Ayungin Shoal,
04:34.3
issues on the West Philippine Sea,
04:36.5
and suddenly the Philippine Coast Guard announces
04:39.6
that there are, what it seems to me,
04:42.6
reclamation activities in Sabine Shoal or Escoda Shoal.
04:47.3
What information do you have, Justice?
04:51.6
Well, Escoda Shoal is very close to Reed Bank.
04:58.6
That's about 100 nautical miles.
05:02.6
It's the closest, one of the closest shoals or reefs
05:08.2
And if you want to put up an outpost close to Reed Bank,
05:12.1
it will be either Escoda Shoal or Rosal Reef,
05:17.1
what is also known as Iroquois Reef.
05:20.3
So, if considering that the Coast Guard has found
05:28.6
dead corals, and they're apparently put there together by...
05:35.6
it's a man-made piling of corals,
05:38.7
then this could be the precursor of an island building by China,
05:43.5
again, to put up an outpost near Reed Bank.
05:46.6
And if they succeed in putting up an outpost near Reed Bank,
05:51.3
then that will be giving us more difficulty in getting the gas in Reed Bank.
05:56.9
Now, Sabine Shoal,
05:59.8
is within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines.
06:04.6
And so is Mischief Reef.
06:07.8
What lessons should we learn from Mischief Reef?
06:13.0
Well, that's why we have to start this from the...
06:15.6
stop this island building from the very start.
06:19.8
We should send our Coast Guard there constantly,
06:24.8
and I think they should stay there almost permanently.
06:28.6
To prevent the Chinese maritime militia from going there,
06:33.0
because it looks like the maritime militia vessels are the one piling all these dead corals.
06:39.2
And we should file a case now.
06:41.7
The DOJ has been preparing a case against China,
06:45.2
precisely for the damage to the marine environment in Escoda Shoal and Rosal Reef.
06:51.3
We should file that to give attention to focus this illegal island building,
06:58.6
because it looks like China put this on the world agenda.
07:02.8
We have to also ask our allies to jointly patrol with us
07:10.4
near Reed Bank, near Escoda Shoal and Rosal Reef.
07:14.9
Because Rosal Reef and Sabine Shoal are the two nearest geologic features
07:22.5
that China could...
07:25.0
where China could create an artificial island,
07:28.3
to prevent us from developing Reed Bank.
07:31.2
Okay. Now, filing a case is one thing.
07:34.2
But let's talk about preventing China from building an outpost.
07:40.1
Can it be done justice?
07:41.9
I mean, at the end of the day...
07:43.8
Yeah, we saw suddenly the Philippines woke up to Mischief Reef
07:48.2
already being a complete facility with a tarmac.
07:53.7
I mean, it's a complete facility already.
07:56.3
It was a shock to the Philippines.
07:58.3
You know, people at that point.
08:01.2
Yes, we can prevent.
08:02.3
We have to be there in Escoda Shoal 24 hours a day.
08:07.8
Send our navy and our coast guard there to patrol regularly
08:15.4
and prevent any construction by China.
08:21.4
Patrolling is one thing, but you've seen China's great tactics, right?
08:26.9
The use of water cannons,
08:28.2
and the Philippine vessels close to them.
08:30.6
The use of these laser lights.
08:32.9
What can patrolling do if China is committed, decided, relentless
08:40.3
on just building in what they believe to be their territory?
08:46.5
Well, if we have a 24-hour presence there every day,
08:50.2
I don't think they can put up their artificial island.
08:53.8
We can station continuously our coast guard in that area.
08:58.2
And I don't think they can create anything because we will be there.
09:02.6
And the U.S. already said that if they use a water cannon
09:09.5
and it results in the death of a coast guard or a navy personnel of the Philippines,
09:15.5
that would be a ground to invoke the treaty.
09:17.6
So I think China will be careful this time because of that statement of the U.S.
09:23.4
Now, do you believe, so that they're careful, I wanted to ask you that,
09:27.6
with the Balikatan exercises, we've had the biggest so far.
09:31.6
Now there's a more, the policy of this government is transparency
09:37.0
in terms of what's happening to the West Philippine Sea.
09:40.8
And instead of China backing down, it seems that they've stepped up.
09:45.8
There's more presence in the West Philippine Sea.
09:50.1
Well, that's normal.
09:52.8
That's why we have to be there all of the time.
09:54.9
We should not only have joint patrol,
09:57.6
not only with the U.S., but with our other allies or like-minded states
10:02.8
like UK, France, Japan, Australia.
10:05.8
And they have all manifested their intention,
10:10.2
their desire to have joint patrols with us.
10:13.3
And we should take advantage of that.
10:16.6
Now, you've called on many, many months ago,
10:19.8
you've called on President Marcos Jr. to already start exploration in the Reed Bank, right?
10:26.9
that's when we'll know he's walking the talk.
10:30.2
And right now, how important is this with a possible threat of China
10:36.4
possibly reclaiming in Sabina Shoal, which is close to the Reed Bank?
10:42.9
Well, China will try to stop us.
10:45.3
But if we have a joint patrol with the U.S. and other like-minded states,
10:49.2
I don't think the Chinese Coast Guard can stop us.
10:53.1
So it's very important that when we send our survey
10:56.6
and we'll ship to Reed Bank,
10:58.3
there will be joint patrols with the U.S. taking place at the same time.
11:02.1
Because that is what happened in Malaysia and Indonesia.
11:05.5
And the Chinese Coast Guard couldn't do anything.
11:09.5
Can you explain that even more, Justice?
11:13.4
What does the Constitution exactly allow
11:17.0
when it comes to exploration of the Reed Bank?
11:20.3
Can we contract government to government?
11:23.0
Can we partner with another country?
11:25.8
You have lawmakers,
11:26.6
lawmakers saying and giving that as a suggestion,
11:30.6
as a recommendation.
11:32.1
What does the Constitution say?
11:34.5
Well, the Constitution says that the marine wealth
11:37.9
in our exclusive economic zone shall be used exclusively
11:41.3
for the benefit of Filipino citizens.
11:43.5
But that does not mean that we cannot hire foreign companies
11:47.6
to extract the gas for a fee.
11:49.9
In other words, the Constitution allows service contracts.
11:53.4
In other words, when we get the gas, we can do it.
11:56.5
We can either find ourselves or we can hire other people to do it for us and pay
12:02.6
because it amounts to the same thing.
12:04.2
So what we are doing is under the service contract system of the Philippine government.
12:09.1
We are actually contracting the work to get the gas.
12:15.1
That's why we have this service contract,
12:17.3
Service Contract 72 of the Reed Bank has been awarded to Forum Energy.
12:22.2
Forum Energy is our contractor.
12:24.6
They are our agent to get the gas.
12:26.4
They are still in full control of the operation that is allowed under the Constitution.
12:32.1
Okay. And with Forum Energy already getting the contract, what is the status today?
12:37.2
Have we started exploration?
12:39.8
Well, they were about to start during the time of President Duterte,
12:43.8
but President Duterte stopped them because President Duterte didn't want to anger,
12:49.1
to displease President Xi.
12:54.4
So they were never able to go to Reed Bank during the time of Duterte.
13:00.8
But now, I think the purpose of all these joint patrols,
13:04.9
it started off the coast of Palawan.
13:07.9
It's now about to reach Reed Bank,
13:10.0
and that is the time when we will be sending the survey ship there
13:14.3
to finally make the final survey so that drilling can start.
13:19.7
So I wanted to ask you, the Constitution does not allow
13:23.5
the Philippines...
13:24.4
...to be in a joint venture or a country partnership in exploring the Reed Bank.
13:33.2
It has to be because the Constitution says the marine wealth
13:38.6
shall be used exclusively for the benefit of Filipinos.
13:42.6
But we can, of course, hire foreign companies to do the drilling
13:47.1
and pay them a service fee that is allowed.
13:49.7
Okay. And just for clarity, that's how it was with Malampay.
13:54.4
When it was first discovered, is that correct?
13:57.8
That is the existing arrangement before with Shell and Chevron on Malampaya.
14:06.4
That's how they work on Malampaya.
14:09.9
They were our service contractor.
14:11.6
We were paying them for their services.
14:14.3
That is also the case in Reed Bank.
14:17.3
So, Justice, when you have lawmakers suggesting and recommending
14:21.9
that we get into a joint venture with the Reed Bank,
14:24.2
what is the case?
14:24.3
What is the case?
14:24.3
What is the case?
14:24.4
What is the case?
14:24.4
What is the case?
14:24.5
What is the case?
14:24.5
What is the case?
14:24.5
Another country, let's say China, to keep the peace in the area,
14:28.7
that would mean you would have to change the Constitution.
14:33.2
Well, not necessarily because China has a service contractor also,
14:39.3
China National Offshore Oil Company.
14:42.3
And in fact, during the time of Duterte, an MOU was signed,
14:46.5
a Memorandum of Understanding was signed between the Philippines and China,
14:50.5
wherein China would come in as a service contractor
14:53.6
through the United States.
14:54.3
Sino, China National Offshore Company.
14:57.5
And the agreement was signed and I was very hopeful that we'll finally resolve the dispute in the entire South China Sea
15:04.3
because other countries were looking at it and they said, Malaysia and Vietnam are saying, that's acceptable to us also.
15:10.6
Because under the MOU, China recognizes that the oil and gas belongs to us, but they will help us in extracting.
15:20.3
They will come in as a service contractor under the service contract system of the Philippines.
15:25.6
But at the last minute, the Chinese demanded that we remove in the service contract the phrase,
15:32.7
whereas the oil and gas belong to the Philippines and the service contract shall be governed by Philippine law.
15:38.8
They were demanding that those two provisions be deleted.
15:42.4
And of course, that will violate the constitution, that will reverse the arbitral award.
15:47.0
So then Foreign Secretary Teddy Boy Lockhart.
15:50.3
He said, I cannot proceed anymore.
15:52.8
And he had the MOU terminated.
15:57.8
Well, rightly so, if they were asking for those phrases to be removed.
16:03.1
So the question now is, so Forum Energy has the contract.
16:07.7
How important and vital is it for President Marcos Jr. to already do this now?
16:13.7
To be actually 100% committed to already exploring.
16:20.3
What can it cost him?
16:22.8
What can it cost the Philippines?
16:25.9
Well, to do that, we have to follow the formula adopted by Malaysia and Indonesia.
16:33.8
When we send our survey ship and drill ship, there must be joint patrol with the U.S. to prevent the Chinese Coast Guard vessels from harassing our survey ship.
16:45.1
That is really the...
16:45.7
Did they have what Malaysia and Indonesia did too or they didn't?
16:50.3
When the Malaysians sent their survey ship, the U.S. and Australia conducted naval drills in the same area.
16:59.5
So the Chinese Coast Guard could not do anything despite threats by China that Malaysia should not get the gas because that was under the, that's included in the 10-dash line.
17:11.4
The same thing happened in the Natunas of Indonesia.
17:15.9
China said you cannot get the gas there because that's within the 10-dash line.
17:20.3
But Indonesia proceeded, sent its survey and drill ship together with its Navy.
17:25.8
At the same time, the U.S. aircraft carrier, Ronald Reagan, happened to pass by.
17:30.8
So the Chinese Coast Guard couldn't do anything.
17:33.3
And the formula is we go there, we send our survey and drill ship, and there must be a joint patrol.
17:40.5
So this is quite interesting.
17:42.5
I think a revelation that we as a country, we're not doing something quite new.
17:48.3
Our neighbors have done it too.
17:50.3
By asking their Western allies to patrol with them.
17:55.3
In the case of Malaysia and Indonesia, there was no formal announcement of a patrol.
18:01.7
But the U.S. and Australia just conducted their naval patrols.
18:06.2
There, of course, it was all orchestrated behind the scene.
18:09.9
Same with Indonesia.
18:11.9
But since we have a mutual defense treaty with the U.S., we can actually announce a joint patrol.
18:20.3
It's still important to file another case at this point.
18:25.7
Former Solicitor General Francis Ardeleza said something like,
18:32.0
when you file the case, the Philippines spent roughly more than a billion pesos.
18:39.3
To actually file the case.
18:42.0
Well, I don't know the exact amount.
18:43.8
I think it was less than a billion pesos.
18:45.7
I think it was about 13 to 15 million U.S. dollars.
18:50.3
Because if China does not appear, normally, the parties to the arbitration should pay for 50% of the cost of arbitration.
19:04.8
But if the other party does not appear, the sole party will have to bear the burden of paying all the administrative expenses.
19:13.3
So, is it still worth it at this point to file another case when it comes to the environmental damages?
19:20.3
Considering China does not recognize the country's victory at all or the results of the arbitral ruling?
19:30.0
It's important that we continue filing.
19:32.5
Filing one arbitral award over the other.
19:35.3
Because the world will rally around any arbitral award.
19:39.1
In the same way that the U.S., France, U.K., Japan, whenever they sail in the West Philippine Sea, they invoke the arbitral award.
19:47.9
And that's the most important.
19:50.3
The most robust enforcement of the arbitral award is when the U.S. and its allies sail in the West Philippine Sea
19:56.2
and announce to the world that this is the EEZ of the Philippines under the arbitral award.
20:01.8
And under UNCLOS, there is freedom of navigation and our flight in the EEZ.
20:07.7
They can conduct naval drills.
20:09.4
So, that's actually an enforcement of the arbitral award.
20:12.0
And even China has acknowledged that recently, a few weeks ago,
20:18.3
Wu Xikun, the head of the Hainan South China Sea Institute, said that the arbitral award of July 2016 has a negative impact on China.
20:30.1
An impact, negative impact that cannot be erased anymore.
20:33.8
They acknowledge.
20:35.1
While they say that that's null and void, they know that it's hurting them.
20:40.3
And that is what counts.
20:42.4
Because right now, the world is rallying behind that arbitral award.
20:48.3
Yeah. All right. Okay.
20:50.3
Now, moving forward, our relationship with China,
20:54.2
it's come to the point already where you have the Philippine National Security Advisor
20:59.5
calling for the expelling of Chinese diplomats over this alleged leak of a phone conversation with a Filipino admiral,
21:12.2
this alleged gentleman's agreement, etc.
21:14.7
But it's come to a point where,
21:18.3
we have cabinet secretaries already going hardline against China.
21:27.0
I wanted to ask you, I know you're quite firm with this because you took this to court.
21:33.7
But are we also sacrificing our relationship with our nearest neighbor?
21:42.0
Well, if you look at Vietnam, Vietnam has been engaging China.
21:48.3
With water cannon.
21:50.3
They, unlike us, we are not retaliating with water cannon.
21:54.7
Vietnam has been retaliating.
21:56.7
But Vietnam has very robust trade and economic relation with China.
22:01.6
So they were able to separate the issue.
22:03.6
And Malaysia also has been able to separate the issue.
22:07.6
Malaysia is now extracting the gas within their EEZ, but under the 10-dash line.
22:17.4
They were able to separate the issue.
22:17.9
They were able to do that.
22:18.9
But still, they have retained very good trade and economic relations with China.
22:24.9
It has not affected their trade and economic relations with China.
22:28.9
So you really can separate it.
22:30.9
Those Filipinos who said that our trade will suffer haven't seen what happened in Vietnam and Malaysia.
22:39.9
Because actually, we import more from China than we export.
22:48.4
We invest more in China than China invest here.
22:54.4
Because we have our Taipans investing heavily in China.
22:58.4
So if there is a cut in trade or economic relations, it will be China that will suffer most.
23:04.4
Especially now when its exports are going down.
23:08.4
Very few, there has been a withdrawal of Western investments in China.
23:15.4
So they cannot afford.
23:16.4
Those who are exporting or trading with them to back out.
23:21.4
So they will not, I think, cut economic relations.
23:26.4
So what are we missing?
23:28.4
Why can't we do both?
23:30.4
Well, because during the time of President Duterte, he refused to send our seven dealership to Reed Bank.
23:37.4
He said there will be a massacre.
23:40.4
There will be war.
23:41.4
Of course, there was no war when Malaysia did it.
23:43.4
There was no war when Indonesia did it.
23:45.4
And the last thing that China would want is to get the U.S. involved.
23:51.4
Because if China starts to attack our Coast Guard or Navy ship, then we can invoke the treaty.
23:58.4
And the last thing that China wants is to give the U.S. a legal excuse to intervene in the South China Sea dispute.
24:05.4
So we just have to get the gas in Reed Bank because it's a matter of national survival.
24:13.4
Malampaya is running out of gas already.
24:16.4
And Malampaya used to supply our three largest gas-fired plants in Luzon.
24:21.4
It's supplying only two now.
24:23.4
We have to import LNG from abroad to supply the third gas-fired plant.
24:28.4
And by the end of this year, I think only one gas-fired plant can be supplied by Malampaya.
24:34.4
So we will be importing LNG very expensive.
24:37.4
My estimate, that will be 50 percent more expensive than Malampaya.
24:42.4
And that will really, our inflation rate will shoot up.
24:49.4
And investments here will dry up.
24:55.4
Because even the foreign locators, foreign investors who are manufacturing the Philippines will have to relocate outside.
25:04.4
Because if our power rates go up, they cannot compete with their rivals who are manufacturing in Vietnam or China.
25:11.4
Yeah, very good point.
25:13.4
And not only that, there's also the political side to this.
25:17.4
If President Marcos Jr. doesn't do this now, during his term, there's no assurance it will ever be done.
25:25.4
Because you don't know who's going to win after 2028.
25:29.4
Well, if President Marcos Jr. cannot get the gas in Reed Bank, then I will be the first to say that he's not competent.
25:38.4
Why was Malaysia able to do it?
25:41.4
Why was Indonesia able to do it?
25:43.4
We have the arbitral award.
25:45.4
We have a mutual defense treaty with the U.S.
25:47.4
And the U.S. is willing to go on a joint patrol with us.
25:50.4
Why can't we get the gas?
25:52.4
Why do these other countries, why are they able to get the gas?
25:57.4
So for you, this is the litmus test for President Marcos Jr. when it comes to the West Philippine Sea.
26:04.4
Yes, because at bottom, the battle over the exclusive economic zone is a battle of
26:10.4
who can get the natural resources.
26:12.4
Even if China does not recognize our EEZ, even if China does not recognize the arbitral award,
26:19.4
as long as we get the gas, we are winning.
26:24.4
Let's move on very quickly just to Ayungin Shoal.
26:27.4
There's been talk of a different strategy.
26:29.4
And of course, you do have the National Security Council saying there's no such thing as a new model,
26:36.4
that new agreement when it comes to resupplying.
26:39.4
But is it time we do things differently for Ayungin Shoal?
26:45.4
Well, first of all, we can explore other things.
26:52.4
Go ahead, Justice.
26:53.4
Well, we can explore other things like airdrops.
26:56.4
Anything we can do as long as we don't concede our sovereign rights.
27:01.4
Is it time to actually put in another vessel to replace VRP Shoal?
27:08.4
Would that be too much of a statement?
27:12.4
Is that too strong?
27:13.4
Is that provocative?
27:14.4
Well, my suggestion, my recommendation is we put up a lighthouse and a marine research center because these are civilian activities.
27:26.4
In the arbitral award of 2016, the tribunal refused to rule that the Chinese maneuvers constituted harassment.
27:37.4
Because the arbitral tribunal said these are military activities outside the jurisdiction of the arbitral tribunal.
27:47.4
So what we should do is convert the activity to civilian.
27:52.4
And if we put up a lighthouse and a Coast Guard substation there together with the marine research center, that would be a civilian activity.
28:01.4
If China stops us from putting those structures, we can go to the tribunal.
28:07.4
Well, I think on that note, I don't want to keep you long.
28:10.4
But I wanted to say that with all your points, clearly, if something needs to be done, then this is the administration to do it.
28:17.4
If it's not done here, it's going to look bleak in the next few more years.
28:24.4
We have no choice.
28:25.4
We have to get the gas now.
28:27.4
It takes four years to develop the gas field.
28:30.4
And so there is really a gap.
28:32.4
Malampaya will run out of gas.
28:34.4
And we still cannot get the gas in the reed bank because assuming we are still developing it.
28:38.4
So we have to import LNG.
28:40.4
Our power rates will go up.
28:43.4
But at least there is light at the end of the tunnel if we are already developing the reed bank as our next gas field.
28:52.4
On that note, thank you very much for joining me today.
28:55.4
Another informative interview, former Supreme Court Associate Justice Antonio Carpio.
29:02.4
Thank you, Karen.
29:03.4
Thank you to our viewers.
29:05.4
We're going to take a quick break and start.
29:07.4
We'll be right back.
29:33.4
Welcome back to Head Start.
29:46.4
Three Filipinos are chosen as finalists for the 2024 Pulitzer Prize.
29:53.4
Jeffrey Ernaez reports.
29:57.4
The University of the Philippines is very proud to have two of its alumni as finalists.
30:02.4
In the 2024 Pulitzer Prize.
30:04.4
Considered the most prestigious award-giving body for journalism and the arts globally.
30:09.4
And Ren Galeno, contributor of the Washington Post.
30:13.4
One of them is Ren Galeno, the visual artist for the story Searching for Maura by the Washington Post under the Illustrated Reporting and Commentary category.
30:22.4
It's about the fate of the Igret woman Maura and other members of her tribe who were brought to the World's Fair in St. Louis, America in 1904.
30:30.4
She worked on the project.
30:31.4
She worked on the project with Washington Post reporters Claire Healy and Filipino-American Nicole Dunca.
30:39.4
I don't know what to do.
30:41.4
I don't know what to do.
30:43.4
Yes, but afterwards,
30:45.4
of course, the pride and the honor.
30:48.4
And just I'm so proud of the team and the comic.
30:52.4
The production lasted more than a year.
30:54.4
But according to Galeno, it's an honor to share the Filipino story with the world.
30:58.4
This is an investigative report.
31:00.4
It's an illustrated report.
31:03.4
We really had to make sure that everything we were portraying was real and factual as much as we can.
31:14.4
We want to make sure that we are not speculating on anything.
31:18.4
And if there is an available reference, we will hunt it down.
31:24.4
Feature photography.
31:26.4
Hannah Reyes Morales.
31:28.4
One of the panelists for the prestigious award is photographer Hannah Reyes Morales
31:32.4
for her photos of youth from Africa published in the New York Times.
31:36.4
Hannah said she's still in the day since hearing the news that her name was included in the prestigious list.
31:41.4
The award-winning project also helped the world understand the story of African youth.
31:45.4
Galeno hopes that with this recognition, the talents of Filipinos will be more recognized around the world.
31:51.4
I hope this opens up a lot of doors for us.
31:56.4
And I'm just so grateful for whatever is happening right now.
32:02.4
It's really exciting.
32:04.4
And also for my friends na kumikero.
32:07.4
I've always known that we can do it.
32:11.4
And hopefully the world can see that this is what we can do.
32:15.4
Journalist Manuel Mogato won the Pulitzer Prize in 2018 and Carlos P. Romulo in 1942.
32:21.4
Jeffrey Hernaez, ABS-CBN News.
32:26.4
And we're now joined by Pulitzer Prize finalist Ren Galeno,
32:31.4
the visual artist and the illustrator for the Washington Post's Searching for Maura,
32:38.4
and investigative reporter Nicole Dunca.
32:42.4
Hello, good morning to you both.
32:44.4
Thank you for having us.
32:46.4
All right, let me just first say both your names so the audience knows who is who.
32:51.4
Nicole, can you say good morning first?
32:53.4
Hi, I'm so glad I'm here.
32:55.4
Yeah, so Nicole is the investigative reporter.
32:58.4
And Ren, say good morning.
33:00.4
Hi, good morning. Thank you for having us.
33:03.4
All right, it's an honor.
33:05.4
So to those watching, Searching for Maura is the investigative report that's actually printed in the Washington Post.
33:13.4
So if you've never read it, go online, open the Washington Post, and look for Searching for Maura.
33:20.4
And what's amazing about this is you can read it in English.
33:24.4
But more than that is the Washington Post actually publishes it in Filipino, right?
33:30.4
This is the digital, cell phone, mobile version with your illustrations.
33:38.4
Okay, so let's start with this.
33:41.4
How did this project happen?
33:44.4
Perhaps you can explain, Nicole.
33:46.4
Yes, so I am an investigative reporter at the Post.
33:50.4
And one of my colleagues, Claire Healy,
33:52.4
happened upon this story because in 1904, there was a World's Fair in St. Louis.
33:59.4
And there was a Philippine village there where more than a thousand Filipinos actually came to St. Louis
34:07.4
and lived in villages so that others could come and see how they lived.
34:12.4
Basically, they would call them savages.
34:14.4
It was a very dark time in that history.
34:17.4
And during that time, several Filipinos died.
34:21.4
And four of those Filipinos had their brains sent to the Smithsonian Institution
34:27.4
to an anthropologist named Alice Hrdlicka who was starting a racial brain collection.
34:33.4
And so a lot of the research he wanted to do was involving, you know, whether there were differences between races.
34:40.4
And so he was always looking to indigenous communities.
34:44.4
And so that included a woman named Maura who came from Suyok who was an Igarot woman in Kankanae.
34:50.4
And we were able to find this story.
34:55.4
Claire got in touch with an activist in St. Louis named Jonna Anionuevo Langmoltz, who's also Filipino-American,
35:04.4
who had been trying to find out more about what had happened to Maura's brain after it was sent to the Smithsonian.
35:10.4
And that brought us to this larger story about all of the human remains that the Smithsonian Institution collected.
35:17.4
There are more than 30,000 human remains there.
35:20.4
That were collected over time.
35:23.4
And, you know, more than 280 human brains were also collected.
35:28.4
And so we were really interested in Maura's story because she was written about in the newspapers.
35:34.4
And we wanted to know, you know, what had happened to her brain.
35:38.4
What had happened to the other people who were in the 1904 World's Fair.
35:43.4
And one of our visual editors had the great idea of using the comic,
35:49.4
reported comic format, so we could really fill in the gaps of the different images that we didn't have.
35:57.4
And that is how Jenna Pierog and Hannah Good, two editors at the Washington Post,
36:03.4
looked for the perfect illustrator to help with this comic.
36:09.4
And that's how we found Wren.
36:11.4
And we're so thankful because all of her illustrations were so perfect every time they came in,
36:18.4
with what we were thinking about for this story.
36:22.4
Now, Wren, why don't you tell us about it?
36:25.4
I mean, when they called you, have you ever worked for the Washington Post before?
36:31.4
No, this is, it definitely came as a surprise.
36:36.4
Are you based in the Philippines, Wren?
36:38.4
Yes, I live in Davao right now.
36:42.4
So when they emailed me, it came as a surprise.
36:45.4
I was definitely a little suspicious about it.
36:47.4
Because how does that happen?
36:49.4
But when I did respond, and when I received the brief and the script,
37:00.4
I understood immediately the gravity of this story and how important it was to not only the team,
37:08.4
but also, I guess, to Filipino history in general.
37:14.4
So it was definitely an honor to...
37:17.4
To participate and being able to tell it to a wider audience.
37:22.4
Because it's quite, there's a revelation and unveiling and a discovery, I have to say.
37:29.4
This isn't just a story.
37:31.4
It's actually surprising that many, the fact that it's not even taught in our own history, you know?
37:38.4
I mean, that for me was the surprising part there.
37:42.4
I was like, as a journalist, what?
37:46.4
Why is this only being talked about now?
37:49.4
I mean, Filipinos were trafficked in 1904 to the United States.
37:54.4
You didn't even know enough details about it.
37:58.4
But let me go to the work that you've done.
38:04.4
So the reason I'm using my phone is because a bulk of it is, of course, it's mobile.
38:12.4
A lot of us really work for mobile.
38:14.4
Whether we do website storytelling, it's because people now look through their mobile.
38:19.4
Tell me, Ren, why did you think of this approach?
38:26.4
Well, first of all, when they approached me to do the comic, I think they envisioned it as sort of separate illustrations.
38:39.4
But when I learned it was going to be set in Suyok,
38:43.4
or there would be scenes in Suyok,
38:45.4
I knew it was really important.
38:48.4
I felt it was really important to showcase the hills and just the general geography of Suyok.
38:54.4
And the best way to do that, if I couldn't do it horizontally, which would compress the image so much,
39:00.4
I would do it, I decided instead to do it vertically,
39:05.4
which is why you'll get these really large sections of the comic where you're just scrolling through the hills of Suyok.
39:12.4
And other than the hills, this is something that actually moved me.
39:18.4
This part, she and her fellow Filipinos were there to be put on display.
39:24.4
So it's right here.
39:26.4
And then you draw three, would it be to say three igorots, right?
39:34.4
This was actually at the fair.
39:37.4
And that is based on an actual image that they sent me.
39:41.4
It's an image that's available in the archive.
39:46.4
And then you move on to a timeline.
39:49.4
There's a timeline already.
39:50.4
You go to Timeline Storytelling.
39:53.4
And you talk about Maura.
39:55.4
Now, there are no photos of Maura.
39:57.4
So she's meant to be faceless on the phone?
40:04.4
And she is in all the iterations of the comic.
40:08.4
So why did you want to portray it that way?
40:11.4
I mean, you could have put a face, like just a basic Filipino face.
40:15.4
Why did you make her like literally faceless?
40:22.4
Well, we do have descriptions of her available.
40:26.4
And that's primarily what we worked with when we were creating Maura's physical character.
40:35.4
And she's also based on two other igorot women.
40:39.4
So her tattoos are based off of a woman named Demenia.
40:43.4
And her body and her hair, which is something that the newspaper reports is long and dark.
40:52.4
It's based off of another igorot woman who would have been around the same age as her called Dugmina.
41:00.4
Nicole, why do you think, why did this story, considering it's so graphic, it's shocking.
41:10.4
I mean, why do you believe was it only brought to light now?
41:16.4
I think that the reason we were all so passionate about this is because so many people didn't know about this for a long time.
41:25.4
And actually, a lot of the research that Claire and I were able to uncover and that Ren was also able to see were because of an immense amount of research from Filipino, from Filipino scholars.
41:37.4
That helped keep these stories alive.
41:40.4
And as a Filipino American, my heritage is extremely important to me.
41:45.4
I have family from Taytay and from Tarlac.
41:50.4
I still have a lot of family in the Philippines.
41:52.4
And the idea of being able to tell this dark part of Filipino American history was very important to me.
42:00.4
It's obviously very shocking.
42:02.4
And when I heard about it, I had not heard so many things about the collection of human remains.
42:07.4
I didn't know as much about the 1904 World's Fair.
42:11.4
And so, when the opportunity presented itself to be able to work with so many other Filipinos in the newsroom who were really, really, like, honored to be a part of the story and to work with Ren.
42:25.4
And then also our colleagues like Regine Cabato who is at the Washington Post but based in Manila.
42:32.4
We felt like it was a really unique opportunity to show this part of history that hadn't been known before.
42:36.4
And also, we knew that there was a connection to the present.
42:40.4
We knew that there were Filipino remains that were still at the Smithsonian Institution.
42:46.4
That the government, you know, has taken steps to repatriate now.
42:51.4
So one of the things that we wanted to do was make sure that, you know, the families, the governments, these countries had this information that hadn't been available for a long time.
43:02.4
Because the Smithsonian had been reporting about human remains.
43:05.4
Mostly related to Native American communities.
43:08.4
But remains from other indigenous communities.
43:12.4
From other countries.
43:14.4
They didn't know that they were here.
43:16.4
And part of the reason that, for example, one of the human brains for a family from Alaska was returned was because of our reporting.
43:27.4
And after we started reporting and after Jonna had gotten in touch with the Smithsonian.
43:33.4
They got in touch with us.
43:35.4
They got in touch with the Philippine government to make sure, you know, that they knew about these remains.
43:40.4
And could see whether they wanted to repatriate them.
43:43.4
And so that's in process now.
43:45.4
But it was just a really unique opportunity for us to really tell a Filipino story.
43:50.4
And it was really amazing this week to get this honor because it really showed that Filipino stories matter.
43:57.4
And we always want to be able to show that as Filipinos.
44:01.4
I know we're always looking for representation in the media.
44:05.4
Whether it's in the U.S.
44:07.4
Or we want to make sure that worldwide our stories are being told.
44:11.4
And so it was a really unique and amazing opportunity to see it get recognized by the Pulitzer Prizes.
44:19.4
Do you remember the day when this was pitched to your editor at the Washington Post?
44:24.4
I mean, that moment in time, what was the reaction?
44:29.4
I mean, the joke that I have is that anytime someone talks about Filipinos in the newsroom, I kind of appear.
44:34.4
And that is a little bit what happened here.
44:37.4
Someone said, did you hear about this story that had to do with Filipinos and human brains?
44:43.4
And I immediately got interested.
44:45.4
And so I talked to Claire.
44:47.4
And I knew immediately that I really wanted to work on this.
44:50.4
And I thought that this was an important story.
44:53.4
And speaking to my editor, Dave Ballas, and my former editor, Sarah Childress, they were just immediately intrigued by this story.
45:03.4
And they said, well, we don't know about this kind of history.
45:06.4
So many people don't know about the human remains in museums.
45:09.4
And so many people do not know about the 1904 World's Fair.
45:13.4
And so when we knew that there was some investigative component to tackle, we knew that it was something that we would put a lot of resources toward.
45:22.4
And how did it happen?
45:24.4
I'm curious the process that the Washington Post decided.
45:29.4
I don't know, at least in its digital version, no?
45:32.4
I mean, was this printed?
45:36.4
Yeah, that was really exciting that this ran in our print edition as well.
45:44.4
There's a book version that is available for sale on our website in both English and Filipino.
45:51.4
And also, a version of the comic was sent out to our subscribers in a tab version where we were able to get some of this.
46:02.4
And there's some of the Filipino translation into the Sunday newspaper, which is a very big deal for people.
46:11.4
Yes, that is a big deal.
46:12.4
Who decided to include in the Washington Post website that you can read it in Filipino as well?
46:21.4
I think that was brilliant.
46:23.4
That was brilliant.
46:24.4
And that moved me so much.
46:26.4
You know, seeing our language, our very own language in the Washington Post.
46:31.4
in the Washington Post.
46:33.9
And we're so lucky because
46:35.5
we had such an amazing team
46:37.5
that had this idea. We had a
46:39.3
projects editor, Casey
46:41.1
Shaper, who is also Filipino-American,
46:43.8
who said we should
46:45.5
translate this. And the minute I heard
46:47.5
that, the minute Claire heard that, it was
46:49.8
something that was just very
46:51.5
obvious to us. So we were able
46:53.6
to work with translators
46:55.6
from the Philippines, but also
46:59.1
Washington Post reporters
47:01.4
as well who were able to help.
47:05.6
Hannah Dormito and Regine
47:09.6
part of this process
47:11.3
of making sure we are translating
47:13.5
this so that it would be available
47:17.6
so that it would be available to the community
47:19.6
in Suyok. And I was lucky enough to be
47:21.6
able to actually go to Suyok for some
47:23.5
of this reporting and deliver some of this
47:25.4
news to the community there
47:27.6
because that's where
47:28.8
Mauro was from. And when they
47:31.3
found out that it was going to be
47:33.4
available in Filipino, it meant
47:35.0
a lot because it also meant a lot
47:37.3
of the elders would be able to read this
47:39.1
in the language they were most comfortable
47:41.2
with. And that was a huge
47:43.4
part of, point of pride
47:45.2
for all of us, especially the Filipinos on the
47:47.3
team, but also the non-Filipinos on the team
47:49.3
because it showed how much we wanted
47:51.2
to get Mauro's story out
47:52.7
and it showed that we really
47:55.3
wanted everyone to be able to access
47:57.4
it, especially people with disabilities.
47:58.8
And that was a huge part of
48:01.3
what we wanted to do within our culture.
48:03.3
All right. I wanted to ask you, Wren,
48:05.3
there is a book version, right?
48:07.3
There's a book version of this. Did you do
48:09.3
the illustrations for the book version as well?
48:11.3
Yes, I did primarily
48:13.3
the illustrations for the web
48:15.3
version, but they were
48:17.3
reformatted for movies,
48:19.3
not movies, for a video
48:21.3
version and a book
48:23.3
version. And that's
48:25.3
because of the great designers at the Washington Post.
48:28.8
What would this, I mean, clearly
48:31.3
just being a finalist for
48:33.3
the Pulitzer Prize, that's an achievement
48:35.3
in itself, right?
48:37.3
I mean, let's be honest, right?
48:39.3
That's already a coup. But what
48:41.3
would this mean to you if you did
48:43.3
win? There are two Filipinos who won
48:45.3
in the past, a photographer and
48:47.3
I believe it was in
48:49.3
the report, Carlos Romulo,
48:51.3
right? If I heard it correctly, one
48:53.3
of the Romulos won, but also
48:55.3
a Filipino photographer.
48:57.3
What would this mean to all
48:59.3
of you? Is Claire Filipino-American
49:03.3
but she has been so dedicated to the
49:07.3
have a team that has been so
49:09.3
dedicated to the story. So this year, we did not
49:11.3
win, unfortunately, but a
49:13.3
finalist prize is something that
49:15.3
we're really proud of, and we're
49:17.3
hoping that it can just get Maud
49:19.3
a story to even more people.
49:21.3
Oh, okay. All right.
49:23.3
Well, I think that's the game changer
49:25.3
already, right? It's the
49:27.3
game changer. And
49:29.3
are you planning on
49:31.3
venturing abroad, Ren?
49:35.3
In terms of living,
49:37.3
probably I'm staying here, but
49:39.3
the work has just been coming from
49:41.3
everywhere, and it's been incredible
49:45.3
I think this is such a big break for you, Ren.
49:47.3
Right? Yes, it definitely is.
49:49.3
I mean, seriously.
49:51.3
And Nicole, what about you? What are your
49:55.3
love working at the Washington Post.
49:57.3
And we're working on more investigations.
49:59.3
But this was just such an honor to be able
50:01.3
to work on something related
50:07.3
hoping that more of our stories
50:09.3
can include our culture, and
50:11.3
we can make sure that we're giving
50:17.3
to have their stories told. And that's exactly
50:19.3
why we chose Maud a story, and the
50:21.3
story of all the other people
50:23.3
who have been included in the Smithsonian's
50:25.3
collection. Okay. Well, you make us
50:27.3
proud, and I think it's so important to see
50:29.3
faces. You know, your
50:31.3
faces, because people role model
50:33.3
from Filipinos too.
50:35.3
So when they see your faces, Filipinos
50:37.3
feel, I can do this too.
50:39.3
So bravo to you both.
50:41.3
Bravo. And regards to Claire
50:43.3
as well. And to the Washington
50:47.3
so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.
50:49.3
And that's Ren Baleno and Nicole Dunca
50:51.3
of the Washington Post.
50:53.3
And that's Get Start today. Thank
50:55.3
you for joining us. I'm Carolyn
50:57.3
Avila. Thanks for watching. Stay
50:59.3
informed and stay with ANC.
